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H E L P M E please, 1982 GTSi FUEL issues

Discussion in '308/328' started by 1ricardo, Jan 20, 2015.

  1. 1ricardo

    1ricardo Karting

    Nov 14, 2012
    69
    Brazil
    Full Name:
    Ricardo Baptista
    Dear Friends

    I need help again, Today I took the car for spin and i THINK, not sure the the car did not have any fuel, so the car took a lot of time to start up but after that it started the it run for 1/2 a block and the engine start to die.

    I pull over put a few gallons of fuel in the fuel tank but the car refused to start, I checked the fuel pump fuse and it was OK, the i open the air filter box and pour some gasoline directly into the butterfly.

    The car started but just for the amount of fuel that i pour inside the motor.

    Now, what do you guys think should be my course of action now?

    1-) If the car really stopped because an empty tank of gas, is there any bleeding procedure for the injection system

    2-) May be the pump went bad? How do i check the pump?

    Any help is welcome ;-)

    Thanks

    Ricardo
     
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  3. miketuason

    miketuason F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Feb 24, 2006
    14,044
    Cerritos, CA.
    Full Name:
    Mike
    How do you the fuel pump is working? Check the fuse and or relay.
    What year is your car?
     
  4. 1ricardo

    1ricardo Karting

    Nov 14, 2012
    69
    Brazil
    Full Name:
    Ricardo Baptista
    Hi,
    I´m not sure if the fuel pump is working I checked the fuse and it was OK, but i did not checked the relay, also how do i check the relay? Can I exchange with any other relay?
    Does the fuel pump make any noise when i put the the ignition in the ON position?
    The car is 1982
    Thanks
     
  5. 308nut

    308nut Formula 3
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 22, 2002
    1,874
    NOLA/Covington
    Full Name:
    Wade
    turn the key on and lightly press down on the plunger (butterfly as you called it) in the fuel distributor, if you here a buzzing the fuel pump is working,
     
  6. 308nut

    308nut Formula 3
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 22, 2002
    1,874
    NOLA/Covington
    Full Name:
    Wade
    is your car a US version or a Euro version, there could be many things that can keep your car from running properly, O2 sensor, WUR, electrovalves, thermo time switch, fuse, relay, accumulator, pump, filter, AAC , ...


    Wade
     
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  8. miketuason

    miketuason F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Feb 24, 2006
    14,044
    Cerritos, CA.
    Full Name:
    Mike
    You can also try this, pull the blue terminal by the fuel distributor to bypass the fuel pump then, turn the ignition to on only, you should then hear the fuel pump running.
     
  9. 1ricardo

    1ricardo Karting

    Nov 14, 2012
    69
    Brazil
    Full Name:
    Ricardo Baptista
    The Car is a EURO version
    I just replaced the fuel accumulator and the fuel filter, I´ to check the relay, by replacing the fuel pump relay with the one of the side ending in 113
    Also I´ll try to find this blue terminal and the fuel distribuidor and check for the pump noise

    Thanks for now
     
  10. Gator1

    Gator1 Karting

    Sep 23, 2014
    149
    Westport, Ct.
    Full Name:
    Herm
    Do the gauges work when you turn the key?
     
  11. 1ricardo

    1ricardo Karting

    Nov 14, 2012
    69
    Brazil
    Full Name:
    Ricardo Baptista
    Well,

    I unplug the blue terminal by the fuel distributor, open the air filter and turn the ignition on but i hear nothing from the pump, i also try to open the plunger, but nothing.
    Both the relay and fuse are good
    And yes the gauges works fine when i turn the ignition on.
    I´ll try get under the car and use a multimeter to see if the any current is getting to the pump wires
    If yes i´ll change the pump an pray for the engine starts

    Thanks for now
     
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  13. Rich S

    Rich S Formula Junior

    Nov 30, 2013
    501
    Monterey, California
    Full Name:
    Rich Saylor
    #10 Rich S, Jan 22, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2015
    Though I'm not familiar with the engine/fuel delivery system layout of your particular car, still it seems to me that if you find the last point where fuel is pumped into the engine/FI system, then loosen the fuel line just enough to allow fuel under pressure to leak out a bit, then have someone turn the ignition on briefly while you watch the loosened connection, asking the person with his hand on the ignition key to turn everything off after a second or so or as soon as you say "stop". If no fuel leaks out, then the fuel system is either clogged/blocked (for instance, a pinched fuel line? Clogged filter?) or the pump isn't working. The twin tank interconnect system is a bit complicated, as well; good idea to study up on how that lot works. It might even be possible that little or no fuel is being supplied to the pump. If you use this method I also advise disconnecting the distributor power supply and keeping a good fire extinguisher (like halon) at hand next to you at the engine bay, with the safety pin removed of course. While a dry chemical type extinguisher works, if actually used it can create a real mess, so avoid such a device, if you can. Halon extinguishers are commonly used in aircraft, if none are readily available in local stores, so try the nearest airport with a good shop (FBO), if nothing else. If the fuel pump, etc. works, next on the list is the FI system.

    Good luck-

    Cheers,
    Rich
     
  14. ME308

    ME308 Formula 3

    Nov 5, 2003
    1,538
    Munich, Germany
    Full Name:
    Michael
    #11 ME308, Jan 22, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2015
    .
    bom dia :)

    don`t be too sure, look into your manual, you even have two relays in the fuel pump circuit (`82i)

    the ...113 fuel pump relay and the ...101 relay (wrongly called "relay for start injector" or "start valve relay") - the latter controlling the fuel pump relay

    also, check you fusebox`s plastic backside for burned marks around the fuel pump fuse rivets/connection


    this would indicate a failure of either the fuel pump relay, the (wrongly called) "relay for start injector" or the fuel pump itself

    when you unplug the safety switch on the airflow metering unit (simulating an always open safety switch), the fuel pump should always run when ever the key is in the "on" position (Pos II) or the "start" position (Pos III)


    sounds like a plan ;)

    .
     
  15. 1ricardo

    1ricardo Karting

    Nov 14, 2012
    69
    Brazil
    Full Name:
    Ricardo Baptista
    Guten Tag,

    Viele Danke fur deine antworten! :)

    I´ll take a look tomorrow and the relays, to be sure the are working, then i´ll go with the multimeter under the car, then check the pump, then see if something is clogged

    Thank you all again
     
  16. Paul_308

    Paul_308 Formula 3

    Mar 12, 2004
    2,335
    #13 Paul_308, Jan 25, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Attached is how the fuel pump gets voltage from the battery. This requires both relays to function properly. Purpose of the circuit is to allow fuel to flow with no air flow (engine stopped) and key in 'start'.

    Unplug the blue connector from the air flow sensor (the black wire shown in the diagram). Seated in the car place key in 'Run'. Left relay coil ground is removed allowing it to relax. Battery voltage then goes thru the 'relaxed' first relay contacts to the second relay's coil, energizing it. Battery voltage flows through the second relay contacts to the fuel pump. Given a valid fuse (left #3) the pump functions with a sound easily heard within the cabin.

    Failing to hear the pump, change the relays by replacement with nearby relays or new ones if handy. Both relays as they do carry heavy current and fail more often than others do. Carrying spares is recommended. Ferrari mislabeled the relay functions (right-left) on some diagrams.

    For testing purposes, the 82 Euro fuel pump relay (diagram left) is at middle left on the relay panel and is the very same type relay as the window relay to it's immediate right. The other involved fuel pump relay (diagram right) is located on the panel upper right and is the same type relay as the right headlight lift relay immediately below it...Temporarily swap like relays. Note that other car models have different relay locations! Best to mark relays with a black felt pen before swapping.

    gl - p
    Wiring Diagrams 308 365 400i 512
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  17. 1ricardo

    1ricardo Karting

    Nov 14, 2012
    69
    Brazil
    Full Name:
    Ricardo Baptista
    Dear Friends,

    Thank you all for the help! I thing i had 2 problems at once, yesterday i change the 101 relay and found that i had voltage at the pump wires but the pump was completely frozen, then i change the pump and the car started right away
    But as before the engine is very rough! Especially at the 1st quarter of gas pedal, it begins to loose RPM the make some "bang", escape noises and i also notice that there is some noises coming from the relay box, from a relay opening and closing while the engine e rough
    I wonder if there is some problem now with the air flow switch? After the engine starts, can i unplug the blues switch from the fuel distributor? To see if the engine smooths out?

    Thanks Again

    Ricardo
     

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