Haas

I think Haas is banking on Andretti not getting a grid spot, pushing the value of his team way up at which point he'll look to sell at maximum value. If Andretti does get a grid spot, it'll immediately diminish the value of his team to the cost of a new bid plus maybe 50% due to existing (not very good) infra and lower risk entry (ie not having to go through the process Andretti did). Most valuable part of that team is the grid spot and Ferrari engine deal, the rest is of dubious value tbh.

 

It's a good strategy for Gene Haas, don't you think?
The grid spot will be worth a fortune if Andretti is turned down. Let him sweat !!
The Ferrari engine deal not so much ... In any case, Andretti has already a deal with Cadillac, apparently.

 

Yep, it's a gamble - if Andretti gets the grid spot then I think Haas may have missed out on selling to Andretti instead. We'll see, I think F1 would be foolish to turn down an Andretti/GM bid, but they are often foolish. Haas may also know they won't get a spot so holding out until that's official and then telling Andretti to pony up and pay $700M+ or go pound sand may be the plan. Gene would walk away a couple hundred million richer, if not more if he keeps a high minority (49%) stake and lets Andretti do the hard work of making it competitive.

The latter is what I would do if I weren't interested in doing it myself - sell half to Andretti and pocket a hundred million or so, then let them pull it up the grid a bit and sell another stake, rince and repeat every couple of years until exited.

 

I really don't understand why the car hasn't been developed? It seems they are struggling to know where to start? The update they rolled out didn't work at all.

 

I don't think that scenario will work with Andretti: he wants full ownership.
That's why the negotiations with Sauber fell throught: Rausing wanted to keep just 15%.
Michael said no, and walked away.

 

As Hulkenbery pointed out, their equipment is ancient by modern F1 standards. If Haas honestly can't see (or admit) why they are i 10th place, then he definitely doesn't belong in F1.

 

Eliminate Haas, and the next year, there will be another team taking his place at the back of the ranking.
What to do then ? Eliminate each year the team that ends up last ? F1 would become farcical then.

 

Budget limit, sprint useless races, focus on more street than circuits, too few PU and other technical parts with a low limit, absurd penalty structure - farcical already lol

 

Yeah. Haas has never been anything more than a parts integrator. They don't make the chassis, engine, transmission, suspension or brakes or anything else save for the seats. This is all especially strange because Haas is a company that makes things that makes things. They always had the wrong ideas about F1.

 

Actually it's quite the opposite really if you want to survive in F1. You're correct in that HAAS outsources most of its parts that are attributed to the car and that is why HAAS survives in F1.....it's not game winning but HAAS keeps their head above water.

 

Haas operates within the rules though. I'm sure they are under FIA scutiny
Like other teams, they outsource mechanical components (engine, gearbox, suspension, brakes) .
They participate to the chassis design and own the IP, but subcontract its fabrication to Dallara
They use the Ferrari wind tunnel, apparently, but don't copy them. Other teams do the same.
Gene Hass brought a new business model to F1; he is the perfect example of what a "garagist" is.
He is fighting against big manufacturers, with large resources, most of them having swallowed small teams.
Mercedes isn't Mercedes, Renault isn't Renault, Audi won't be Audi; only the money will come from them.

 

All the non works teams complain about not having works engines. That's just engines. Haas is nearly completely outsourced, which means it is many more steps removed from not having an engine designed for the package. Their whole package is that way. Granted, there's a lot more integration there than that, and simply going down to Pep Boys for parts, but you get the idea. That Haas thought they would be competitive with this approach was and still is wildly absurd.

They actually thought this approach would have them fighting for wins in a few years. Instead, all they have done is gone backwards every year. They had one so-so year, but that was down to other teams basically not showing up. Hoping other teams produce boat anchors is not a strategy for success. And keeping head above water isn't all that interesting of an approach and largely a waste of time.

 

Whatever !! It's always easy to kick someone when he is down !!
In any competition, there are first and last, and some people don't seem to grasp that.
Haas is working within the regulations, so cannot be blamed for operating the way it does.
Outsourcing listed parts, and contracting engineering work is allowed under the rules.
Their problem is the lack of resources to develop the cars every year, mostly in the aero domain.
Haas reminds me much of Williams languishing at the back of the field when they started, until they found a rich sponsor (SAUDIA) that bankrolled them to the front to take so many titles.
Haas F1 could have a good future, given a chance, IMO.

 

I don’t know what’s really going on within this team but Steiner didn’t deliver.
Period.
Gene Haas already demonstrated he’s a successful businessman.
He took all the risks and deserves respect for this.

 

Anyone hear any rumors about Andretti buying out Haas?

 

Exactly ! Look what Howles has achieved at Williams this year !
Him too had a team with obsolete equipment, but he used his budget in an efficient way.
Steiner became too theatrical in recent years.

 

Agree,
Steiner like Binotto are talking too much.
Good sellers I guess but in Formula One you have to deliver sooner than later !

 

Zero other than rumor's and Haas is in the press saying he is not looking to sell. Andretti is not about to enter F1 until the next Concorde and have to pay more. I dont see Liberty or the teams rushing at all as Ben Sulayem would like. Its been stated no one in Liberty or the teams wanted another team pushed on them. This is all just Ben Sulayem pet project to exercise control over Liberty and the teams as he thinks he can. Its a joke. Andretti was picked by Ben Sulayem - as if that 'process' to enter F1 was really a true collaborative effort. Clearly not so far.

Haas is not open to a new team and he will take in less money year over year and he has a weak team. Andretti dilutes him the worst.

 

That's the way I see it too. It's a tug of war between the FIA and Liberty on the Andretti issue.

 

Well, at least HAAS didn't end up like HRT, Caterham, Marussia and Williams(family owned) in an era in F1 where it takes money and some ingenuity to survive in todays F1.

Btw, how many American F1 teams in F1's history have survived as long as HAAS?

 

Haas will be gone sooner rather than later. Why did you mention Williams? They finished ahead of Haas, and made themselves a cool $180MM selling the team to the current owners. Haas doesn't have anything to sell other than a slot on the grid.

 

Like Haas last year, Williams was 10th and last in 2018, 2019, 2020, and even in 2022 under a new owner.

If they sold for $180M, Williams was grossly undersold, since the entry fee in F1 for a new team was already $200M.
Dorilton Capital got a fully functioning team with staff and installations (some obsolete apparently), historical payment, and a good track record to attract sponsors. At $180M, that's a freaking bargain !!

Haas F1 is worth a lot more than that !!!

 

It already is farcical.

 

Why a lot of people are bashing Haas formula One team ?
Looks like a very respectable team even if they aren’t competitive right now.
Many have forgotten some funniest and ridiculous back markers in Formula One history :
Andrea Moda, Forti, guenther Schmidt etc …

 

I give Haas until the end of the first race weekend, and then he'll pay Andretti to take over the team.