Halo 2017 | Page 17 | FerrariChat

Halo 2017

Discussion in 'F1' started by Kiwi Nick, May 28, 2016.

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  1. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    What he said.

    They are rolling coffins. Would never want to be part of a tank crew in a real war scenario. Easy to spot, easy to hit and relatively easy to destroy.
     
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  2. drcripp

    drcripp Karting

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    These guys at FIA aren't dummies. They looked at all the options for protecting exposed heads and came up with the one that offered the most protection with the least obstruction. Anything new in F1 is always greeted by guffaws. I was Assistant Medical Director for Cart in the 80s and 90s and saw a death because of an isolated head injury (helmet on). Jim Hickman was killed by a head injury at the Milwaukee Mile 1982. I was there. Justin Wilson was killed (head injury) at Pocono in 2015. I think, looking at the Alonzo crash video, Alonzo's car literally rolled over the cockpit of LeClerc and there appeared to be deep marks on LeClerc's helmet. I have little doubt that there might have been a significant head injury there. Personally, I'm glad to see the halo. I think the design maximizes safety and minimizes inconvenience.
     
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  3. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
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    Vegas baby

    LOL!!!!
    Well, that was your first error....

    Actually everything is a compromise. The only perfect solution is ban racing and go with robots driving the cars. But I imagine the FIA will want to protect them too... :)
     
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  4. SPEEDCORE

    SPEEDCORE Four Time F1 World Champ

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    They looked at all options that stopped a 20kg wheel @ 225km'h into the head.






    They claimed the reason they didn't pick the shield or fighter cockpit version was because of fog/rain lack of visibility even tho the technology exists.


    Most likely they picked that ugly design because the FIA had been working on that design for 6 years and the teams spent 2 weeks and who doesn't love us some FIA politics.

    They investigated all the major accidents of the past 15 years, some of the accidents the Halo would of had a positive impact other accidents had a neutral impact.

    The accident last week was neutral.
     
  5. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Charlie Whiting has confirmed that the FIA is working on a new version of the Halo and it will probably be introduced in 2021 with the new generation of F1 cars.
     
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  6. maulaf

    maulaf Formula 3

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    what is suggested to change?
     
  7. Dino2010

    Dino2010 F1 Rookie
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    #407 Dino2010, Sep 1, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 1, 2018
    Some thoughts about the Halo.
    Its only reason of existence is safety, agreed.
    If only FIA could answer these questions:

    1.If tradition is important, but less important than safety, why has the general design and form of F1 cars been practically unchanged for decades?

    a.open cockpit
    b.wide wheels mounted distant from body
    c.front and rear wings, not integrated in the flow of the body

    2. Besides the fact that tradition is less important than safety, why do we keep to it, inspite of safety in the first place, and why are all physical and aerodynamic rules neglected in the second place?

    a. open cockpit is totally unsafe, but FIA wants us to see the pilot. Even with the halo, that blocs the driver to be seen quite much, objects can still be projected on to the drivers head, with possible fatal consequences.
    Aerodynamics of an open cockpit are bad.

    b.big, wide wheels that are mounted distant from the body, are extremely dangerous. An other car that smashes with it's wheels into a wheel of a car in front, can be catapulted in the air, with possible fatal consequences. Remember the fatal accident of Gilles Villeneuve, where the contact of his Ferrari with the backwheel of the car of Jochen Mass, made him airborne, in 1982. That's 36 years ago.
    Aerodynamics of distant, not integrated wheels are very bad.

    c.front and rear wings, nowadays in carbon, are dangerous. With the slightest contact with other cars, they break into ultrasharp particles, that cut tyres like butter. Tyres that later on can bring drivers in danger by exploding. Besides that, it often puts other drivers out of the race, which is literally falsifying GP results.
    Aerodynamics are, besides the reason why they exist, only moderately good
    They disturb the air that much that, if driving very close behind an other car, roadholding, balance and general handling of the car are heavily compromised. And because of that, FIA created this other falsifying invention: DRS.

    3. Why does FIA implement half solutions where safety is concerned, and doesn't tackle the big issues? Who ever said that a car had to have:
    - an open cockpit?
    - non integrated wheels?
    - front and rear wings?

    4. If these 3 major aspects are "too important" for the design and recognisable form of F1 cars,
    although they are very unsafe and against all aerodynamics, why then not be consequent?
     
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  8. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    The calculation of FIA on the force the impact of Alonso wheel on in the Halo of Leclerc in Spa: 56 KNw. There were no breaks or deformations of structure. At that point the FIA tests are made at 125 kNw. The FIA report confirms that the impact broke the McLaren suspension
     
  9. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I entirely agree with you !
     
  10. P.Singhof

    P.Singhof F1 Rookie

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    Because this is F1, the other thing would be sports car racing (WEC). So if you question all the things you mentioned the only reasonable reply would quit F1, it does not make sense to transform F1 into something already existing (WEC).

    Gesendet von meinem SM-G930F mit Tapatalk
     
  11. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    F1 and endurance are 2 different disciplines.

    The F1 series is based on a series of sprint races to determine the best driver .

    Endurance is based on long distance races (up to 24 h.), with several drivers sharing the same car.

    Even if the FIA was to introduce in F1 all the aspects mentioned by The Strad, it wouldn't make the cars suitable for endurance racing, IMO.
     
  12. Dino2010

    Dino2010 F1 Rookie
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    So, the looks of non-aerodynamic, non integrated wheels, a non-aerodynamic cockpit, with half a visible driver, and knife cutting wings are more important than safety.... That's the conclusion, exactly!

    Don't get me wrong, I love the design of F1 cars. But the hypocrisy about safety is nonsense. The design is just unsafe.
    Basta.
     
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  13. Finlander

    Finlander Formula 3
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    Football is less safe today than its ever been. All the "safety" equipment has allowed players to feel invincible and lead with the helmet and result in concussions... 2017 was the highest ever recorded. Take away those helmets and all that equipment and and go back to a piece of pigskin on their dome and then they won't lead with their head causing concussions.


    http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22226487/nfl-concussions-rise-highest-level-league-began-sharing-data
     
  14. P.Singhof

    P.Singhof F1 Rookie

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    True, so the only conclusion is that F1 is outdated...
    But if you take away the spoilers, the open wheels and the open cockpit it will become a sportscar. Whether the races would be held as sprint with one driver or as endurance with several does not change the looks. So basically you are calling for a sportscar with a center seat like Porsche raced with the 718 RSK in the 1950s occasionally in F2
     
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  15. Dino2010

    Dino2010 F1 Rookie
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    I know what you mean, but I am not really calling for that.
    What I mean is that the general form and design of F1 cars, that I love, have their limits where safety is concerned.
    Not giving up tradition, means obviously higher risks for certain kinds of Impacts, with its sometimes severe consequences.
    Since the end of the eighties many things have been done to make the cars stronger and safer.
    But installing such atrocity as the Halo makes no sense in the aforementioned perspective. From many angles you almost don't see the driver.
    F1 is (and probably should be) dangerous, partly for that reason, the drivers are paid millions.
     
  16. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Mercedes also ran an enclosed wheel car at some GPs in 1955, and the last CanAm cars also had enclosed wheels.
    I cannot see a problem there.
    Closed cockpit would offer more protection and be best for aero too.
    Here again, that would fit with a formula that pretends to be the spearhead of technology
    The look of F1 cars in 2018 is really anachronic to me: they look like wheelbarrows ! (only kidding)
     
  17. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

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    I don't think that would happen with today's players if you took away helmets. There are more than enough idiots in the NFL that don't either know the risks or simply don't care and they will still make stupid tackles for the sake of a game and severely injure someone else.

    Rugby doesn't have head protection, but it has the highest spinal cord injury rate.
     
  18. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Have you see Australian football ? It's mental !
     
  19. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Piece of debris got passd the Halo and hit Gasly on his helmet visor on the first lap..
     
  20. absostone

    absostone F1 Veteran
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    Didn’t see that Any pics?
     
  21. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    sure

    Here's Gasly removing the piece of Ricciardo's front wing which hit his visor at the start, and throwing it out of his cockpit.

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    Gasly says debris hit his F1 helmet on first lap of Russian GP (story.....no pics)

    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/139064/gasly-helmet-hit-by-debris-in-russian-gp


    Gasly feared debris would hit his eye in “really scary” incident (story...no pics)

    https://www.racefans.net/2018/09/30/gasly-feared-debris-would-hit-eye-really-scary-incident/



    Gasly feared Ricciardo debris would go through his visor (story....no pics)

    https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/gasly-helmet-visor-hit-by-debris-in-sochi-race/3186536/


    Daniel Ricciardo says he couldn't avoid the debris when he was overtaking a McLaren in Turn 13 - that damaged his front wing and his pace. It was possibly then the carbon piece from his car went into Pierre Gasly's:

    http://formularapida.net/ricciardo-couldnt-avoid-debris-as-his-cars-carbon-piece-hit-gaslys-visor/
     
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  22. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Exclusive: Halo saved Leclerc from visor strike in Spa crash


    The FIA's official investigation in to the first corner crash at this year's Belgian Grand Prix has concluded that the halo saved Charles Leclerc from being hit on his visor by the front wing endplate of Fernando Alonso's car, Motorsport.com can reveal.


    Following weeks of analysis of video footage and data from the cars involved, the final report in to the accident has concluded that the halo did play a crucial role in saving Leclerc from injury or worse.

    The report by the FIA Global Institute, the findings of which are revealed here for the first time, have given the clearest indication yet of how well the halo stood up to the crash.

    For not only did the cockpit protection system remain ‘structurally intact and in a usable condition’ following the 58kN impact from Alonso’s right front wheel – with Sauber able to remove it without issue after the event – it also helped deflect the McLaren away.

    Pictures of the accident captured by the FIA’s high-speed cockpit camera showed that Leclerc was only hit by small pieces of carbon debris from Alonso’s car as it flew over his cockpit.

    Without the halo, however, the incident would have been worse – even though the front-wheel trajectory would not have brought it in to contact with Leclerc’s head.

    Speaking exclusively to Motorsport.com about the results of the investigation, the FIA’s Safety Director Adam Baker said: “From the available data and video footage, we are confident that the wheel would not have hit Leclerc’s helmet.

    “But, as Alonso’s car continued to yaw relative to Leclerc’s, we believe that Alonso’s front wing endplate would have just contacted Leclerc’s visor. It is difficult to predict the severity of the contact with any precision though.”

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    Crash data
    The official crash report in to the Spa accident, put together by the FIA Global Institute, confirmed that the main point of contact was Alonso’s right-front wheel striking the right-hand upper side of Leclerc’s halo.


    Analysis shows that the relative velocity between the two cars was approximately 30km/h, with an estimated impact angle of 90 degrees.

    This clash with the halo was enough to break the suspension on Alonso’s car, but the right-front wheel rim remained intact and the tyre appeared to have remained inflated. Leclerc’s right rear suspension was broken in the accident.

    The key findings from the report are:

    * The estimated peak force imparted on the Halo was 58kN, this being 46% of the 125kN FIA prescribed load requirement for the Halo and chassis attachment points. The contact position during the crash was close to the load application point for the homologation tests.

    *If the wheel had contacted Leclerc’s helmet with a similar force, there would have been potential for a very serious head or neck injury.

    * The energy and force of a wheel impacting the Halo are inherently limited by the speed and mass of the wheel assembly and strength of the attached suspension. If the full mass of the car had impacted the Halo loading through the primary structure, the impact energy would have been approximately 30kJ (based on 840kg at 30km/h). Such energy would have devastating consequences if it loaded directly onto the driver. However, the Halo would not be able to absorb all this energy without significant deformation and probable failure.

    *An investigation by Sauber has confirmed that the Halo structure, its attachments and the chassis were not damaged or deformed due to the engagement with the wheel.

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    https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/leclerc-spa-crash-visor-halo/4309428/
     
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  23. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Good for Charles, bad for the sport.

    What if Hulkenberg's Renault had caught fire in Abu Dhabi?
     
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  24. 375+

    375+ F1 World Champ
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    The outcome would have been catastrophic.
     
  25. P.Singhof

    P.Singhof F1 Rookie

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    When was the last time a F1 car really burnt down to the ground? Chances to be hit by a tyre are far higher in my opinion....
     

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