=> Hamilton scored more points than Alonso in 2007 which means he beat him - Fact/Agreed => Alonso is a two-time world champion who beat arguably the greatest current-generation F1 driver at his peak and was recently voted the best F1 driver by the OTHER DRIVERS as well as several respected publications - Fact => Hamilton will never win another title and Alonso will win at least two more before he retires - Opinion Cheers
Spot on. As you pointed out in your subsequent post WDC points only go so far. One needs to watch the season to make a real judgement.
Thanks for the laugh today! ...and I suppose Lauda was better than Prost because Lauda edged him out in 1984. You're too much.
Good old SRT Mike always reverts back to 2007 when discussing his boy Hamilton because he is an Alonso hater. While the world can see they 2 tied on points, he still thinks he can confidently claim that Hamilton is better than Alonso because he is listed higher in the standings (thanks to what, more 4th place finishes or something) despite that the 2 tied on points. Nevermind what the team owners, drivers, or most F1 journos say, he thinks Hamilton is unquestionably better because he and Alonso tied on points 4 years ago. But, we've been down this before, he will never change his views despite what everyone "in the know" says because he is an Alonso hater. Nothing to see here, move along...
Sure would. It's just funny/frustrating/silly (at this point) when people refuse to acknowledge that Hamilton beat Alonso on '07, and justify it by inventing a scenario (a tie) which does not exist in F1. Not saying you are doing that, but it seems a common theme around here - to create an alternate reality where Alonso didn't lose to Hammy in '07. Credit where credit is due, and all that
On the other hand, Alonso is very lucky he was as close as he was, considering Hamilton had a couple of unlucky situations towards the end of the year where he lost points, arguably because of the team. As for favor, I don't favor Hamilton to the exclusion of other drivers. I like many drivers - Hamilton is one, Vettel is another, Button is another. It's true I dislike Alonso because a scheming rat, but I've never failed to give him credit for his ability. He's just a scumbag. A talented scumbag, but a scumbag nonetheless. It's no surprise that he is the single common factor in every cheating scandal over the past 5 years or so.
Well, Alonso had a *much* better car than Schumi in 05-06. Alonso no more beat Schumi in 06 than Button beat Alonso in 09. The cars were so radically different that a talent comparison cannot be made. I do know that Schumi came damn close to winning that year, despite the car being a bit of a turd. As for Hamilton, I will gladly take your bet that he won't win again. What was the bet again?
If there was some other factor at play that would explain why Alonso lost, then that would be one thing. But Alonso didn't have any specifically bad luck compared to Hamilton - actually, the other way around. Absolutely equal machinery and opportunity. Hamilton won - and it was his rookie year. Given the same situation again, I'd expect the gap to be much, much larger. Especially if Alonso is capable of actually running a full season without cheating, which is probably not possible, considering he's cheated the last, what, 4 years now?
You would have a hard time making the case that Hamilton has gotten worse since his rookie year. And since Hamilton has already beaten Alonso in equal equipment, it's not much of a leap to assume he would beat him by a larger margin next time. I realize this is.... inconvenient... for those who don't like Hamilton, but it's no less true.
I think Hamilton is less consistent since his rookie year. Since you think the gap between Hamilton and Alonso would now be "much, much larger," how much would you venture to say Hamilton would beat him by? About how much he beat Button by? Lol. Look all the drivers voted Alonso as the best in the field by a clear margain. I guess some guy on the 'net knows better, though!
Yes, I would guesstimate the margin would be about how much he beat Button by, maybe 10-20%. Yes, the drivers did vote Alonso as the best driver... unfortunately that has not translated into anything substantive, like being able to beat Hamilton, or Vettel. Or even to pass Petrov, for that matter. LOL! fact > opinions, even opinions of F1 drivers.
So you think Alonso is on the same level as Button? That's all I needed to hear. Nothing substantive? You mean like 2 WDCs and a pit mistake from a 3rd in a far inferior car to Vettel? Uh huh. Remind me where Alonso finished in relation to Hamilton last year? You have strange criteria for what it means to "beat" someone.
Since this thread has gotten way off track, I will give MHO: Hammy is perhaps the FASTEST driver in F1, but he makes far too many mental errors, which is why Alonso is rated as the BEST driver in F1 by the drivers and the team managers, people who know a little about these things....Hammy still has much to learn, but it matters not since Vettel IMHO will win the WDC again and will continue to do so as long as Newey remains at RB; they can only beat themselves...
I like how Alonso recently classified his competition. He pretty much stated Vettel is surgically precise, while Hamilton is just plain fast but with rough edges. I see Hamilton as being similar to Ayrton in regards to outright raw talent.
Mike - I'm in your corner. Alonso has all the talent in the world, but he is a lowlife to me. Everytime i think he's maturing he reverts back to his true self Sore loser (Abu dhabi post race) This off-season - confronting photographers at an airport..... He says alot of the right things in interviews, then does the complete opposite when he didn't get his way....
Cheating? Where? http://f1chronicles.com/2009/04/03/lewis-hamilton-disqualified-for-lying-to-stewards/ I'm just sayin.....
Your so wrong on this I don't even know where to begin, so I'm not. Just do me a favour and read up on how Lewis and his dad started out on his racing career.
It should be "...and a pit mistake and getting away with cheating from a 3rd". He is talented... he's just not quite as good as Hamilton. Very close, very very close... but just not quite there. That's why when they raced in equal equipment, he got beaten. And no justification will ever change that. Why do you think Alonso has such a hard-on for Hamilton? One singular reason - he's the only one in Alonso's career who ever beat him with no excuses possible. Everything else is opinion, supposition, justification. The facts are clear... they ran together in equal equipment, and Hamilton won. That's what keeps Alonso up at night
