Weight. My close friend owns one of the largest tire shops in Southern CA. They LOVE Tesla’s and EV’s.
Scandanavian countries are cute and fun to sight data from, but we have towns in CA with larger populations than Norway! lol. It would take a whole lot of Norways to equal the coal fired electricity China and India burn. Let me guess Norways health care system is amazing too? It’s a regular utopia over there!
"Electric vehicles also use tires at 3x the rate of petrol cars" Never heard of that. I guess because of their high torque ? Anyway, tyres can be recycled (I don't mean remoulded), and there is a huge industry dealing with that here. They are shredded, turned into granules, that can be used with other compounds for road surfacing, or roof protection, etc ... I am not an advocate of EVs for ecological reasons only; my main argument is for Europe to be energy dependent first and foremost. Countries that have to buy most of their energy from other countries are not totally independent, but subject to blackmail, price fixing, political and economic pressure, like we have been suffering for decades. Energy is like food: it's better to grow your own. I would like for Europe to escape from the clutches of oil producing countries, OPEC, etc ... Only renewable energies can realise that, and that's what I think we should be working on, hence electrification is a priority.
So you are saying heavier vehicles wear out tires faster than lighter vehicles. A 4000 lb Tesla Model 3 isn't going to eat tires any faster than a 4000 awd SUV. I see William said torque, but that isn't the case unless the owners are trying to do launches on a slippery surface causing tire spin. I'm no EV advocate, but to say EV vehicles eat up tires 3x faster than petrol cars is nonsense.
The weight difference between an EV vehicle and its ICE counterpart in the Audi, Mercedes, or BMW ranges is between 200 and 400kg. I can admit more wear, but not 3 times faster. Tyre wear is mostly affected by how the vehicle is driven, and on which roads.
Well, I’m taking my cue from a guy that owns huge numbers of tire shops, and tells me that they put tires on Teslas (which let’s face it, is the electric vehicle market) at a high rate of nearly 3-1. Now it’s likely a combination of weight and lead foot starts which EV owners love to do, however he stated to me it’s a weight issue. I will certainly try to clarify with him. I’m assuming you don’t own tire shops, so to say it’s nonsense is based on what?
That’s not based in reality. Tire compounds will determine a rate of wear when combined with weight and driving style. The Tesla is heavy and wears a softer compound to increase dry traction and performance. A 4000 lb SUV wears a much different compound to increase comfort and mileage.
Tire wear is really the only complaint about our 3000lb i3. OEM Bridgestones lasted 13k miles, most of those put on by my gentle-footed wife. I did do an auto-x, which probably wore away at least 1k miles worth of rubber. And they're skinny so relatively small contact patch. And Houston's hot concrete road surface is like 20 grit sandpaper, but still. Annoyingly low miles to get out of an ~$1100 set of tires. Luckily Momo makes a very nice replacment in close-enough size for $300 a set that we've currently got 7k miles on. Image Unavailable, Please Login
You summed it up well. For me F1 has experienced death by a thousand cuts. 6 years ago when they brought the Halo in I was sitting there watching a race and it just hit me, thought what am I doing staying up late watching this for? I was watching a sport that had been stripped of everything that first attracted me to it. Switched off the tv, went to bed and have never watched a full race since.
I mean yeah, if you're doing sub 2 0-60 sec Plaid launches every chance you get. Pay to play. I mean yeah, being the fastest car on public roads ain't free, I mean hell, even Hyundai's are competitive with Ferrari/Lambo/Porsche these days Normal commute driving, you're looking 20-30% - instant torque is hard on tires. I could care less about the environment on a "Ferrari" and "F1" chat room. All I care about is if track and speed records are still betting broken. For folks that want to just look at their cars, more power to them. Then if they are EVs not won't matter, they don't drive em anyway. Stop watches have no feelings, no ears, and they hell don't have a 'favorite' color between green or black as oil. Image Unavailable, Please Login Even crazier in the SUV space. Cue the folks that now chest pump on the badge or 'fake' sound. Got to suck onto some sort of copuim as a 'Huyndai' just smoked your 'exotic' car ass on the street. I'm just glad Ferrari is not sitting still and going into EVs to fight back. Guess I'm just the type of guy that still thinks, what, being 'fast' matters? What a concept.
This used to happen in the opposite direction. Some folks hated on Ferrari for environmental reasons—typically, it was those over-politicized hippies hugging a tree. Nowadays, the hatred for EVs is coming from a different crowd, and it always cracks me up. It’s EV tech that’s making humble Hyundais faster than Lambos. I never thought I’d see the day when the "exotic sports car world/F1" crowd would bow down to a myriad of reasons to hate the fastest cars. Hard coping is real in a world where Hyundai outpaces a Porsche I guess. Actually, it reminds me of those guys who threw a fit over LED lights. Personally, I appreciate not having to drag out a 20-foot ladder to replace burned-out bulbs. But hey, some folks probably miss the good old days of expensive inefficient lighting and unnecessary manual labor. I got a bunch of VHS tapes I can give them I guess. As for sound, yeah fake sucks, but I have faith Ferrari will get it right. Besides, it's all subjective, that's why the riceboy in his fart can civic thinks it's based, and everybody on the street rolling their eyes? (not so much.)
I don't need to own a tire shop. I do know my research in tires though, which is irrelevant to you. But physics are physics. Take the same make and model tire on a 4000 lb Telsa, and it will NOT only get 1/3rd the life as if it was on a 4000 lb SUV if driven the same. You have now changed the story to lead foot. That changes everything and I do not disagree with that. There are plenty of drivers that treat their Tesla's like they are Corvettes because they haul ass stop light to stop light. That is not a condition of being an EV at all. I could put on a set of BFG's on my Chevelle and get 3 miles on the odometer until I did a burnout that took them down to the chords. That doesn't reflect the tire life of the BFG tire or my Chevelle. If you are saying Telsa's use a soft tire compound and comparing that with a generic sedan with a hard compound, well that isn't a fair comparison either. You can't say Corvette's are notorious for poor tire wear because it's a Corvette when in fact you are comparing an R compound tire to an all terrain on an Explorer. There are tons of variables for tire wear, weight included. However I repeat that a generic statement such as EV's wear out tires 3x faster than Petrol vehicles is 100% false.
I think what you meant to say is “I believe is 100% false” Like me you have no empirical data, just anecdotal opinion. To me I could care less. I’m just not sure why a guy that sells 10’s of thousands of tires annually would say we are in love with Teslas because they eat tires. He’s likely mistaken. This thread has digressed into irrelevant subject matter. My apologies to those wishing to discuss Hamilton’s respect level. Cheers
I certainly support doing your own research vs spitting out a comment a buddy made. I definitely wouldn't state such a comment as fact. It is true, I do not have any fair scientific testing on the subject to directly debunk your claim. I could say that Pluto is more than twice as cold as Earth. While myself and nobody else has ever taken a thermometer to Pluto, you would still probably say I am right. In any case, I am fully onboard with you in getting this thread back on topic.
Just saying, and not wanting to derail the thread further... Norway doesn't have many sun hours, but has an enormous advantage on almost any other country due to geography: hydro-electricity makes 88,5% of all electricity in Norway. Rgds
It's not weight alone. Skinnier tires (like most of those on EVs) have a longer contact patch that has to absorb all that weight for a longer duration. SUVs usually have wider tires. Hence the EV tires are gonna wear faster.
Surprise, surprise! Newey seems to have just been shopping Ferrari's number for his services. I'm neutral on Newey coming to Ferrari or not. If he comes, great. If not, whatever. Newey said he's always wanted to work with Hamilton or Alonso. Well, Ham just won a race, while Alonso hasn't won in over a decade. Do we even need to talk about Stroll? If Newey thinks that he can turn Stroll and Alonso into winners, he's out of his mind. Even he can't do that. That's why I think he'd prefer Ferrari, where Hamilton could have a final title run. The choice of drivers to work with his an obvious one, imho. Then again, I think Newey's role is going to be very hands off and more consulting, like what Byrne has been doing. If that's going to be his role, then I don't think it's wise Ferrari get in a bidding war either. The important role is the technical director, who runs the day to day operations, delegates, and decides what areas of the car need attention and which ones should be ignored. Fry, Binotto, and Sanchez all sucked. Allison and Cardile were 'meh'. Red Bull have Wache' and I don't think people understand that he's as important if not more than Newey in how understand tires - he worked at Michelin. I think Loic Serra is an excellent choice, imho. That's what Ferrari need. People who have BEEN apart of championships like Serra and Hamilton. That's how they turned things around in the 90's. They just went and hired Schumi, Brawn, and Byrne, who already had won championships together. Ferrari keep trying to groom their own talent, and the results speak for themselves. They're good, they win races, but they can't put together a consistent season. Serra and Hamilton can bring the outsider pov that know what's missing, as Schumi and Brawn did at Ferrari and Mercedes.
If Aston Martin was to deliver a "Newey-inspired" superior car, they could be tempted to attract better drivers. Drivers come and go, remember. Alonso is near retirement age, as for Lance ... What I find puzzling in F1, is that some teams attract teenagers to pedal their $multi-millions cars, and other still keep drivers who could be their father as if they were eternal. I am not advocating getting rid of anyone, but I think it's strange to make plans based on people near the exit door, rather than bringing new blood to suit future projects.
Alonso and Stroll are going to be with Aston for at least two years, probably three. To turn that team around Newey will need an upcoming championship caliber driver to work with for a few years, and I don't see Newey making a commitment that goes beyond 6 years. Aston is making Cardile CTO, so I don't see what role Newey would really get. Then again, it's probably going to be just consulting regardless. Ferrari need someone a little younger than Newey. The people coming in from Mercedes are logical hires.
Big torque causes the driven tires to wear noticeably quicker, even without spinning them. I’ve owned a 2004 Mercedes-Benz E 55 AMG Kompressor since new. It makes big torque (i.e. instant reflexes/zero lag compared to the later E 63 Biturbo). My motor and ECU are 100% OEM stock. I’m running ‘Plus 1” BBS RS GT 19” wheels with Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires. With the very intrusive factory Traction Control & Stability Control engaged, it’s not spinning its rear tires. Nevertheless the rears do wear very quickly by virtue of the big torque forces going thru them, etc.
You have staggered tires which is why your rears run faster. IF you the same tires all the way around i.e. 255 18 ZR35 then you would be able to rotate them every 7k miles thereby prolonging the longevity. Tires have UTQG ratings on them. Michelin Sport Cup 2's I believe have a 30k mile rating on them as they are somewhat sticky tires. Yokohama's Avid Ascend have a UTQG of 80k miles. All depends on the UTQG rating.
Cup 2’s do NOT have a 30k treadware rating, or even close to it. UTQG ratings are assigned by the tire maker, not the DOT so comparing UTQG ratings of various tire makers is a waste of time.
Well, look up a UTQG rating of a Pirelli Trofeo R tire and tell me if you would put those tires on your daily driver(car).
