Hard start 87 328-need advice..

Hi Greg, Steve Magnusson would be your best bet on help, I just managed to get lucky on diagnosing the ignition modules on my car. However, your car does sound more like a failing crank sensor. Jay Goodman's Mondial 3.2 was on the side of the road with a broken TDC sensor off the flywheel.

I remember Steve mentioned that there are two of the three "crank sensors" used on my 3.2 (although they actually sense physical features on the flywheel) - one for each bank (so when one TDC sensor fails, that corresponding bank's ignition fails -- if the RPM/Tach sensor fails, both banks' ignition are lost).

If you have a buddy with a 328 near by, maybe you can swap the coils from his car to yours just to see if the coils are the problem before you dish out serious $$$. The crank sensor seems to be a pain to get to but I've never had to replace one so I really don't know the effort involved.

see this thread
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=364375&page=5

Best
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IMO, I do not think its the protection relay (controls frequency valve) that's the cause of your starting issue, that would affect more of the idling. I replaced mine when I did not need to, but ended up giving my old one away to another F-chatter in need.

per Steve: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The 100% sure way to know if you have a problem in the protection relay system is check if the frequency valve is "buzzing", or not, during engine operation:

Symptoms for protection relay system problem (with everything else OK):
cold-running = bad (weak)
warm-running = bad (weak)
frequency valve not buzzing during engine operation

Symptoms for O2 sensor system problem (with everything else OK):
cold-running = good
warm-running = bad
frequency valve is buzzing during engine operation

Good Hunting!

 

You can make the same measurement when the starter motor is cranking (you don't need the engine to be running under its own power, you just need the crankshaft turning).

PS Your 328 uses MicroPlex which only has one TDC sensor and one RPM sensor (and if either fails you get no spark on both banks); 308i and 308QV have DigiPlex which has two TDC sensors and one RPM sensor -- so that's a little bit different overall, but the basic operation of the individual TDC sensor and RPM sensor is the same for the two systems.

 

The frequency valve has nothing to do with the ignition system.

If you unplug the safety switch and turn the key "on", the fuel pump should run and the frequency valve should "buzz" (without the engine running):
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No.

(You seem to be confusing items -- the protection relay provides +12V power to run the Jetronic (injection) ECU which runs the frequency valve. The MicroPlex (ignition) ECU runs the ignition system and gets its +12V power directly from the ignition switch.)

 

Greg,

I know it can be frustrating to find the root cause of these no-start issues but if you want to rule out the protection relay Steve has noted how to determine if the frequency valve is operating normally. Simply unplug the blue safety switch connector note in the picture he posted then turn the car to the last key position without trying to start the car and you should easily be able to identify the buzzing sound.

 

Alarm system may have an immobilizer...could be the culprit. When I got my 328, the first thing to go was my aftermarket alarm system. Since there are many systems, each designed differently, who knows how yours protects. My 1998 Lexus immobilizer allows the starter to run and prevents the FP, thus disallowing engine start (it's all done in the computer, though).

Since your connectors looked fine (no brown spots like mine) and relays click, actual FP less likely the cause...however, if your engine quick starts and then turns off each time, it could be a shorted safety switch:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=141577683&postcount=21

A simple thing would be to disconnect the blue connector and try starting (as said before).

However, you did mention recent fuel system work (filter/accumulator); look for leaks/smell there and recheck your connections/orientations. It's unlikely the culprit since you mentioned that the symptom is present cold (thus no "vapor lock" expected), but worth a check.


Otherwise, keep searching ignition...could be a connector at the coils, or transistor.

And change your air filter if it's dirty.

 

Take a weekend morning, buy a box of Starbucks coffee, and rip that alarm out.

I did with help from an F-Chatter about 8 years ago and am GLAD I did. You've never seen so much crap. The car is better for it.

 

My 328 had an alarm, and the guy I bought the car from said that he had been left stranded several times due to the alarm not reactivating the ignition. He had it disabled out of frustration. So these things can be intermittant. My first act as the new owner was to have the alarm hardware completely removed. I was amazed at the extent of the wiring and components.

 

just a nother try i had the same problem on mine 88/328 and it was the ignition swicht it self the way i foud out when it did not start i reached behind the switch an moved the wires by hand and it would start ,replaced the switch and everthing was fine had a hard time finding a switch,i opend the old one and found some bad contacts sometimes the worked and othertimes the did not by testing them.give it a try.

 

Hmmm. If only there were suggestions.....

 

I'm not even an armchair mechanic, but I can't imagine the starter would turn if the ignition switch was bad.

 

No, not necessarily. When in Pos II ("on"), terminal 30 (+12V from the battery) is connected to terminal 15. When in Pos III ("start"), terminal 30 is connected simultaneously to terminal 15 (which runs the ignition) and terminal 50 (which engages the starter solenoid). If you go to Pos III, and terminal 30 is connected properly to terminal 50, but not connected to terminal 15, the starter motor will run, but the ignition system will not work.

The way to test this is to measure the voltage between the yellow wires on terminal 15 of on one of the coils (while still connected to the coil) and ground -- it should always be +12V whenever the ignition switch is in Pos II or Pos III. I.e., if you go to Pos III and the starter motor runs, but the yellow wires on terminal 15 of the coils is not +12V = either the ignition switch is bad, or you have a wiring problem between terminal 15 of the ignition switch and terminal 15 of the coils (assuming it isn't your alarm system ).

Alternatively, if you do measure +12V being present on terminal 15 of the coil when the key is in Pos III and the starter motor is cranking, but you get no spark = ignition switch is not the problem.

 

Greg, what model is your Mirage alarm?