Harris review...

Yes, you are bang on here. We all argue which we prefer and even though all manufacturers continually improve their models, the layout, concept and engine configuration is the 80%, the improvements over time are the 20% like Pareto’s principle.

Your story is really interesting and a great reason to become attached to a car. Your story has more to do with the 80% than the 20% and is a much better reason to grow to love a car. The first Ferrari we ordered new we spec’d at the factory, in the same Atelier session as a good friend, which the factory arranged specially for us. Both cars were Speciales and both of us still own them, possibly in both cases never to sell them. With our car we personalised it to celebrate our silver wedding and put a number of subtle ideas into the scheme that reflected that. We factory-collected the car, driving home to the UK through Milan, the Italian lakes, the French countryside, Chantilly and then home.

It was shipped out to Venice and driven back through the Dolomites, Stelvio, St. Moritz, Furka, Lucerne and France on a huge trip with 10 other cars, all great friends. We nearly died in it on Stelvio (I posted a video here a while ago - amazing that I was recording at the moment it all happened - with a bus and a 2 tonne tree flying through the air between us - saved only by the grace of God really). It has been from Bilbao to Marbella and back with the same friends, Le Mans, Le Mans classic with one of my daughters. Where we stay at Le Mans is a great place - a chateau where paying guests camp next to their Ferraris, Astons and Porsches and the owner throws a champagne party on the Friday evening and arranges a car show of the nicest and most interesting cars there (some amazing machines!) Our car won the modern category the year I took it. Silly but great fun and a nice memory. Not sure I can ever sell that car, it’s almost part of the family. In a year or so a Pista will sit alongside it. It will probably be a better car, but we won’t love it any more. And it probably won’t throw a tree at us on Stelvio...

 

Historically, 80% of American Ferrari owners have been over 50 years old. Ferrari corporate is actively trying to recruit a younger clientele, as evidenced by the marketing pics in the new dealerships.

To my eyes, the FF exterior styling is simpler & prettier than the Lusso - especially the rear view and the shark gills on the front fenders. However, the Lusso’s interior styling & infotainment system are much better, and the handling is very impressive with the rear wheel steering.

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That captures it! What a great testimony to how your car reflects the other values and attributes of your life! Super refreshing story indeed!

 

I think even older. I took a factory tour 2 years ago. I was 35 and my wife 32. The next couple was late 50’s and the rest were late 60’s and 70’s. This was an owners only tour. I couldn’t believe how old the average age was. Last year I did a private tour and saw them running the owners tours and again the average age looked to be in the 60’s. They are going to have a tough time attracting younger buyers with all the nonsense games new comers have to play in order to get a car. It wasn’t an issue back when the factory was making 5,000 cars per year. Now that they have increased production and there is increased competition they need more customers and the younger generation isn’t going to play the Ferrari game. I have many friends buying Mclaren and not ferrari due to the Italian treatment they get at the dealership. Hopefully Ferrari corporate will change the atmosphere a little.


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I think many newer owners skew younger, including most in our social circle where I seem to be the old man at age 50. For better or worse, no other make holds much interest for me. Especially not McLaren and I’ve driven them on both road and track.

I honestly have never felt like the victim of any games with Ferrari of Atlanta since Day 1. Then again, we buy a decent number of cars and genuinely enjoy the ancillary activities like organized events and TM.

We attended the 812S Maranello preview in Jan 2017 and did the TM visit in Sept 2017. The order is live but the build probably won’t start until June because TM can significantly delay the build process. So, let’s call that a two year wait for delivery? Some may view that as unacceptable but I think it’s pretty cool that Ferrari and TM even exist in the modern era.

I also think the oft-repeated doom-and-gloom predictions about both the impending decline of Ferrari specifically and ICE sports cars generate are a tad exaggerated. They remind me of Paul Ehrlich’s famine predictions, peak oil theories, global warming, etc. My son and daughter are 20 and 18 years old, and they and their friends love Ferraris, vinyl, mechanical watches, and all kinds of other old fashioned products left for dead. I just don’t see the global love for Ferraris fading any time soon, especially when the company is producing cars like the 488 Pista, tdf, LaF, ...


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The Ferrari tours skew older as older folks have more time off to travel. Using the tour as a representation of the owner age distribution is a very flawed metric.

I went with my wife 1.5 years ago. We were early/mid 40's. The average age was about 50-55.

All of the mentioned tour/age observations (even mine) are almost meaningless when you consider the question of average age of owner, average age of new car purchaser, etc.

 

Most of the young folks are working to damm hard to be able to afford the newer Ferrari that they
gravity to, and of coarse there wife’s come into it, “Baby let’s go and take the Ferrari factory tour
this holiday— complete silence “.
D.

 

I’m curious to see what the average age in this board is. Maybe someone can setup a poll (I’m not smart enough to figure that out)


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So you are spending significant sums of money at your Ferrari dealer purchasing cars and going to their organized events. Compare that to a first timer that walks in and says I’d like to order a 488 or an 812. Not gonna happen. Buy a California or lusso first. Buy a used 458 or used 488 first. That’s the game. Lot of people don’t want to play that game.

Send that same person into a Mclaren or Lamborghini dealership and they roll out the red carpet.

There’s no impending decline of Ferrari. But it’s definitely going to be tough moving more units as they have been increasing production when your standard person can’t go purchase the car they want.


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My first new Ferrari was a 488 GTB. After placing that order and with no pressure from my dealer, I purchased other used & new Ferraris and began to participate in organized events. There was never once dealer talk about having to buy anything else to climb any ladder. Of course, I understood that I could build a relationship more quickly with repeat business - a fact that is true with any high-end product. BTW, my 488 GTB wait was one year - a number I had no trouble with.

Maybe, it’s easier to buy a McLaren or Lamborghini because there is less consumer demand? The residuals seem to reflect this. I recently read in TOFM that 15 of the 20 most expensive cars ever sold at auction are Ferraris. Speaks volumes.

When I was still practicing full-time (elective) surgery, a patient once complained that he could get an appointment with a surgeon across town in one week whereas my wait was three months despite doing 2-3 times the volume of cases. I encouraged him to see the gentleman across town if wait was his most important criteria for choosing a professional.

Sometimes, a product or service is worth the wait. For me, at least. I personally think Ferrari is wise to avoid catering to the instant-gratification crowd.


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This thread is going into an interesting age direction lol. I am in my forties but wife in 30s (I so want to say 20s hahaha). I feel like I am in my 50s with all the broken body parts, I can barely play with my 2 young boys without my knee (ACL) tweaking. Think my 72 year old dad is more flexible and can outrun me now. Yes I love the old man GTC4Lusso design and comfort. Incoming 488gtb and Pista will be interesting to get in and out; might need my own lift haha.

 

That is an interesting piece of information!...Great to know. I wonder how much hindrance to airflow is there due to this device...I wonder how much HP it kills. Still, this device is worthwhile IMO. Do we get that much more flooding here in North American than the rest of the world?

 

Thats a great story about the 612 and now FF. I love stories like this! Enjoy the journey and let us know how it goes!

 

I am 45....wife is 34.....the Lusso will be my 3rd Ferrari....She has little to no interest in my cars....from a Scud to 458 to this....I can understand why the average age is so high....this is a very expensive "hobby"....I think it takes most some time to get into a financial situation to buy one of these cars, new or used.....also I think a lot of the young money, as others have mentioned, are going to different marque's.....

I can only say that while I respect the hell out of the other manufacturers, Lambo and Mclaren, and growing up there was a Countach poster on my wall, Ferrari was the pinnacle....there is absolutely nothing else like it.....other cars may be faster, cooler, etc, etc.....but there is only one Ferrari.....Hell, what company could get me to spend $300K on a station wagon essentially.....put a V12 in it and some cavalinno's and sign me the f up!!!

 

In my side of the country it’s not possible to walk into a dealership and order a 488 or 812 without purchasing another car whether it is used or new. Being that your first “new” Ferrari was a 488 and you have children who are 20 and you were practicing elective surgery, it sounds like your first new Ferrari purchase was likely past age 50 which goes back to the median age of new Ferrari buyers not being the “young” crowd.

I have no problem waiting for a car or any other hand made, limited, exclusive item. Currently I actively practice cosmetic surgery and my backlog is about 9 months. My problem goes back to games dealerships play for new comers... and a game I unfortunately had to play to get to where I am at now. Maybe it’s a west coast thing?

I’d still like to see a poll regarding the average age on this board. I’d be surprised if it was less than late 50’s.


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We started buying used Ferraris when I was 44 yo and my wife was 39. We ordered the new 488 GTB at 48 / 43, respectively. Many of my friends were in their 30’s and 40’s when they started buying Ferraris, but I have seen FCA publish that only 20% of Ferrari owners are historically under the age of 50.

That honestly makes sense if you think about Ferrari’s position in the automotive aspirational hierarchy. I first shopped for a Ferrari at age 30 but bought a Porsche 993TT instead based largely on cost and everyday practicality (AWD, rear seats for my young children, reliability, etc). My heart was still with Ferrari.

I understand that there may be regional differences in demand and dealer practices. I imagine you’re up against more ubiquitous demand and wealth on the West Coast, not just with Ferraris but arguably homes, commercial real estate, top restaurant reservations, etc? My West Coast brother-in-law has recently been frustrated by being outbid on attempts to buy homes despite offering over asking price.

If your surgical backlog is 9 months, I think you understand my original point that quality is worth the wait or paving a path. Supply and demand dictates everything in life, and the heart covets what is not easily obtained. It’s wise for Ferrari to ensure that demand exceeds supply for the halo products. I also can’t blame the company for showing favor to customers willing to participate in the larger Ferrari ecosystem, whether that involves using a FF or Lusso as a DD or going to F1 events, rallies, previews, etc.

Ever notice that you may be treated well enough when dining in a particular Italian restaurant for the first time, but like family if you return to dine again soon after? Part of the charm of that amazing culture.


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Try walk into Hermes and buy a Birkin for your wife. Yeah right. Took me two years to get her one. I was prepared to wait as the eventual success of doing it "properly" was as much pleasure as the final purchase. Sure I could have bought one via other channels but was just not the same experience.

Why should Ferrari be any different

 

I know your just joking but if not, facing away from seat, butt first, left hand just aft of the sill plate, sit down and back with butt up and over bolter without rubbing and just easing into it, then lift legs over one at a time while rotating 90 degrees around in the seated position using left arm for leverage. No knee pivot. To get out reverse order using right arm on wheel to initiate rotation. My version at least. Over 50 approved.

 

Average age of new car buyers in the general market is late 40’s. Given it takes a while to amass the funds for a Ferrari (for most owners) it’s not news to suggest average Ferrari buyers age is in the 50’s. Their challenge is not really younger buyers, but making sure buyers who will become supercar owners choose Ferrari when they do. Which is why the brand is at least as important as the product.

 

When will we start to see 812s for sale?
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?share_fid=9080&share_tid=573789&url=https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/index.php?threads/When-will-we-start-to-see-812s-for-sale%3F.573789/&share_type=t

Read post 18. Exactly what I was trying to get at. Young owners don’t give a crap and don’t want to play the Ferrari games. I did because at the time I didn’t have a choice and I had a deep love for the brand. Porsche had no real special cars, Mclaren didn’t exist, and lambo wasn’t for me. In my circle I don’t know any young Ferrari owners. I’m the only one.


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Our social circles must differ significantly. I have a 35 yo friend (with a 29 yo pregnant wife) who just bought an FF because he loves the design, not to curry favor with any dealership. He owns several other Ferraris and McLarens even though he is a self-professed Porsche nut. I can’t think of a Lambo, Porsche, or McLaren that could make as cool a DD as a FF or Lusso. I have another 38 yo Cali buddy with a bunch of Ferraris in addition to a P1, 918, etc. It’s honestly not an “either / or” game. I still own and love the 993TT purchased new 20 years ago.

It’s nice that your buddies have supercar options that better suit their needs. I suspect at least a few of those younger friends might gravitate towards Ferraris as they age. If not, that’s OK. There’s plenty of room for multiple supercar manufacturers as the world continues to become wealthier. Ferrari isn’t going anywhere.



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So true, and don't get me started how I will never understand what makes Hermes so expensive. To my eyes, it's just like a regular hand bag. Ok, nice leather and hand made. I guess to our ladies, our cars are just like other cars... lol

 

As always, supply and demand determine the price. The relationship between Hermes and gals is analogous to that of Ferrari and guys. One thing I like about Hermes is the lack of brand logos all over the bag, so one can appreciate and focus on the design elements.

 

I actually believe that my wife only “got” Ferrari when she first sat in an exquisitely trimmed 599. Feeling the leather and the stitching I think I know what she was thinking; “Mmm Massive handbag !”

 

Did you hear that we could custom made our cars with Hermes leather... I was so scared when I heard that... lol