Has anyone tried this? | FerrariChat

Has anyone tried this?

Discussion in '308/328' started by lostbowl, Jun 6, 2010.

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  1. lostbowl

    lostbowl Formula 3

    Apr 30, 2009
    1,246
    Michigan
    Full Name:
    Tom
    I wonder if anyone has tried runing the cold start system utilizing only the AAV and by-passing the cold start valve? I had a faulty AAV and I replaced it and then discovered the Cold start valve was toast also. My logic is that the 3K idle is too high so possibly running only the AAV would bring the idle to an acceptable range. If this has not been tried I certainly will but to expedite things it would be nice to hear if this has been done. I had to disconnect the whole cold start system for now but the cold weather will return soon.
    lost
     
  2. CaptOharry

    CaptOharry Formula Junior

    Jan 4, 2009
    763
    Green Cove Spgs FL
    Full Name:
    Harry Welch
    I made a small jumper wire to bypass mine also,Here in FL you really don't need it in the summer.I do let the car idle a little longer to come up to temp before heading out.
     
  3. eulk328

    eulk328 F1 Rookie

    Feb 18, 2005
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    #3 eulk328, Jun 6, 2010
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2010

    The cold start valve, when working correctly, only injects fuel during CRANKING. Not during idling, not during warm-up. Disconnecting it will have no effect on the idle speed.

    Just to make sure we're talking about the same thing... I'm referring to the "9th injector." The one on the intake plenum that is electrically operated (as opposed to the mechanical fuel injectors).

    The cold start valve/injector on my 328 has been disconnected more than 10 years. No problems. Perhaps in a REALLY cold climate it might be needed.

    If your idle speed is too high and you have no vacuum leaks then you can insert a metal object in the air line from the AAV to lower the amount of air getting to the engine. Say, some type of round object with a hole in the middle. If the idle speed becomes too low then drill the hole bigger.

    I have a Euro spec. 328 and you have a 308 (U.S. spec. I assume) so there may be some factors I'm over looking here (added stuff/parts on the U.S. versions).

    Unfortunately, I think that a cold idle that is really quite high (even when everything is working correctly-no faults) is designed to get the catalytic converter(s) up to temperature as quickly as possible and "mechanical sympathy" for the cold engine with cold oil takes a back seat to this.
     
  4. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,901
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
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    Steve Magnusson
    He's talking about the "cold start air valve" (a US version only item), not the "cold start valve" (AKA cold start injector).

    Tom -- Do a search on "cold start air valve RPM" for prior discussion. Many do disable it completely, but (as you'll see in those prior threads) you can also add a simple restriction to reduce the RPM increase to a more reasonable value and keep the system looking "stock".
     
  5. eulk328

    eulk328 F1 Rookie

    Feb 18, 2005
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    F683
    Is that something different from the AAV?
     
  6. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
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    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
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    Steve Magnusson
    #6 Steve Magnusson, Jun 6, 2010
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2010
    Yes, it's a device that works in parallel to the AAV in the same fashion (it routes extra air around the throttle plate, raising the cold-running RPM, when the coolant thermoswitch is cold/open) -- be thankful you don't have one ;)
    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    The "simple" pipe at the bottom of this jpeg is what conveys the air flowing thru the AAV on a euro version. For the US system, they "T'ed" in the cold start air valve so the same pipe carries the air flowing thru the AAV and the cold start air valve:
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  7. eulk328

    eulk328 F1 Rookie

    Feb 18, 2005
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    #7 eulk328, Jun 6, 2010
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2010
    Now I'm confused... why would there be a second device in parallel with the AAV to route additional air into the engine? Do they function differently or at different times?
     
  8. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,901
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
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    Steve Magnusson
    It's primary function is to raise the cold-running RPM (even more than just the AAV) to heat up the cats more quickly and reduce emissions. They operate at roughly the same time, but in slightly different manners -- the AAV closes slowly as it absorbs heat from its internal heater and/or the engine, The cold start air valve is fully open when the coolant thermoswitch is open (cold), and fully closed when the coolant thermoswitch closes (maybe ~150 deg F coolant temp).
     
  9. eulk328

    eulk328 F1 Rookie

    Feb 18, 2005
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    Yuck. Yes! I'm glad I don't have one. If I had a car like that I would do my utmost to reduce excessive "plumbing." Though, I suppose that might be an emissions/inspection issue in some locations.
     
  10. lostbowl

    lostbowl Formula 3

    Apr 30, 2009
    1,246
    Michigan
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    Tom
    Well I tried it this morning and much to my surprise the engine would not start! I removed the AAV (keep in mind the cold start air valve is toast and I haven't found one yet) and I really expected and rise in RPM but instead I regressed to no run. I blocked off the plenum again and away she went but I had to pedal her. Once I reached temp it was back to a nice smooth 1G idle. For those other rookies out there I disconnected the electrovalve and it ran like crap. I haven't looked at the schematic yet but something else went south when the wires to the electrovalve were disconnected. The engine ran rough and as soon as the wires were connected back to the electrovalve it smoothed out even though the valve was not connected to the vaccum lines. I suspect maybe timing advance but again I am just guessing because I have not looked at the wiring. I will say to all of us F-car rookies the adjustments I made to the FD and to the WUR have made the engine run like it should. I didn't care for the thread that suggested taping the pin on the WUR with a screwdriver or something so I made a simple reverse puller, that is to say a pusher. If anyone is interested I can send a pic just PM me. It takes longer to get the WUR in and out (that is if you don't drop a nut into the belt section, or wrench or washer---you get it) than it did to make a simple tool with which you can accuretly set the WUR to spec. Lost
     
  11. Brian Harper

    Brian Harper F1 Rookie
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Feb 17, 2006
    4,078
    San Jose area
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    Brian Harper
    In the interest of losing some plumbing under the hood I lost the AAV and kept the cold start valve. I did put a restrictor in the line to keep the intended 3000+ rpm warmup to something closer to 1800. And then I moved off the side of the engine and out of the way. All that extra stuff hides the beautiful engine!
     

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