Has Ferrari Lost It's Luster?

A little off topic but to that end... I remember looking at a 1969 Lotus Elan 2+2 after I sold a "project car" I had been working on for years. I fell hard for the looks and the lines of the car. So we went for a test drive, in Florida, in the summer. I was almost cooked alive by the heat coming from the firewall. I decided against it.

 

Im sure you have more3 experience than i do. However it seems all these cars, through to maybe the 355/512TR are of a certain essence, after that it changed.

Now I know we all talk of modern creature comforts, and its true that modern roads/traffic means cars need to me more tractable, plus we all like ac that works.

But to use an analogy, a a lotus Elsie is a direct codefendant of the elan, not only in name but in sprit. The elise does not break down, the ac works and its dynamically superior to an elan in almost every way, and yet it has not lost the essence.

Sometimes I wonder, well not sometimes, many times. What if the 296 had some real instruments modern ones like a speciale did, what if the 296 ditched the electrics and weighted oh say 3100lbs, what if even you could get it with a manual option. That to me would be a compelling to own car and compelling to drive on roads plus maybe track.. Instead we geta somewhat lardy car, with screens for a dash(there's a reason peopel buy mechanical/analog watches not digital) that then fakes "performance" with extreme power and lots of electronics, to me thats not special clever or compelling. Looks nice, and the almost flat 6 motor seems special.

Ferrari always had its elite pose cliental, but today the cars spectacular as they are, really just seem lux handbags for men.

Strangely I really like the pursongue when I saw it in Grigio. Seems liek a car for the modern road, a v12 you might actually use and no doubt has excess performance for nay road. Too bad about the cheap ass dash. If its remotely reliable then like all 2+2 Ferraris it might be a great buy in 5-10 years depreciated to under 100k.

 

So this is a true story.

I owned a 246 Dino Gt in the 80's through most of the 90's. I never really took it to "car shows" but there was one up in Palos Verdes near me on Saturday afternoon in the mid 80's, so I went.

I go up to the person letting cars in and he says: "you can park this down the hill with the rest of the Fiats". So, that's where it was -- next to a bunch of 124 spiders and 850's. The "real Ferrari's" were at the top of the hill, far away from their "Fiat" counterparts.

Ferrari people then thought anything but a V12 was the end of the world for the brand. Its still true today. We whine. We complain. We even protest. But the brand still sells exotics better than any other. No one has topped it yet despite all the whimpering.

 

Lotus is trying this with the Emira (not the dash part, but the analog car), and Alfa did it with the 4C. Both are borderline flops. What enthusiasts say they want and what actually sells are two different things. Enthusiasts lamented the loss of the manual, the loss of the naturally aspirated engine, the addition of electrics, but the world moves on. Fortunately cars like the 458 have all the creature comforts I need and are still young enough and reliable.

 

That's hardly fair. EVERYTHING Lotus has ever built has been a borderline flop, because they just don't sell many cars. Same with Alfa. The Evora/Emira are great cars for people who want exotics and don't want to deal with exotic powertrains.

 

The Emira is a cool car, but no lotus. For one thing it weights 3300lbs, thats not even close. the Emira is s modified evora with exotic bodywork for a price, interesting niche maybe. The elige though was the spiritual successor to everything Chapman did and kept lotus in business for two decades and is the most successful lotus by number by far. 4c had strut suspension which cursed it. In any event you're also making false equivalencies, Im pointing out that the Elsie is s spiritual successor to an elan,(as is the flawed 4c) and elan is about as far as you can get from a v12 Ferrari. The point of these cars is they are moderns that retained the magic.

the 458 was imo the first good looking ferrari in a few decades, its looks and motor are the standout compelling pieces, IMO it didnt have fully resolved steering and the brakes were questionable, but the speciale was something special, but then we got the 488..

Maybe more accurate analogy further up the food chain from lotus, porches Gt3 in its various guises retains the raw magic of a 73 rs or even an early turbo but is throughly modern. Youll also note 50% of USA Gt3 are ordered in manual, and given the dealer premiums seem to sell new for more than a 296(GT3 Rs new seems over 400K).. The point is you can still make a modern visceral more purist drivers car and do so very successfully, Ferrari just chooses not to. IMO its a lazy option relying on the "brand" to pull it through and throwing a bunch of Blanding tech at the product because apparently Ferrari is leading edge, which is a change from prior cars which were excellent but not about spurious cutting edge.

As porche has done with the Gt3 it would be good to see a 296 without electrics 3100lbs and a manual option for those who want it. As Ferrari themselves were recently quoted as saying in the wsj article, "were a luxury company that happens to sell cars" Thats fine, but IMO they dont make compelling cars for me. GMD on the other hand, that's where its at.

 

Lotus is a dead brand. This killed it. Lotus used to stand for an engineering phylosophy. Now it stands for selling barely reskinned Chinese electric SUV's with a Lotus label slapped on.

 

Amazes me the lengths that idiot goes through to rip off Clarkson.

 

Speaking of Ferrari's overpriced options, I saw a grigio 308 on BAT. It was a stunner. He posted the sticker. It had 2 options: Deep front spoiler: $535. Metallic paint: $830.

Nowhere on that sticker does it say 'other options', followed by some absurd 6 figure price tag.

 

Lost luster? I wonder why . . .


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I’m sure it has been mentioned, but yes the Ferrari driving experience “feel” has been lost IMO with the electronics and batteries invading and interfering human input, but this seems to be the trend. I hated the drive experience of my SF90 Spider. I did the Corso Pilota in the 296 and walked away unimpressed.
I’m speaking of the luster and the magic of the driving experience…I feel the Speciale has it, which I will keep as the last of the Mohicans. Otherwise, I find luster in driving the CGT, FGT, or Exige V6 Cup car.

 

Well said.
I took the FGT out this weekend for its first post winter drive. Omg it’s just the most impressive piece of kit. Looks, driving feel, compliant, exotic, engaging manual, and a widowmaker.

 

I literally picked one up a week ago and haven’t been this excited about any car in a super long while…will write a Ford vs Ferrari review in a bit

 

I looked long and hard at the Emira. I also considered the 4c when it was still on sale.

The 4c was a hardcore sports car that was saddled with a crappy transmission even for the time. It has 0 storage space. It is not a comfortable ride. It requires a bolt tightening every 12k miles. Not great for a car with a dealer network that was pretty slim at the time. The brand did not have a great reputation for reliability while it was on sale. It also had a terrible alignment from the factory which did not do it any favors.

The 4c either needed to be more livable. Made a little softer and given a useable trunk to be a weekend or trip car. OR, it needed a manual or at least a then top tier automated manual transmission. Instead they missed on both. The bolt tightening and small dealer network was always going to limit sales. The brand's poor reliability reputation would hurt sales. Their poor choice of how to position the car is why no one wanted it.

The Emira? I passed because it is a warmed over evora still using a camry v6 that had a waitlist. Lotus still can't get their reliability act together. Their dealer network is anemic. I put up with an unreliable british make via morgan. I can deal with that. If I am paying Emira money I want an engine that feels special. The camry v6 works well, but special it is not. There was also the question of when it would show up.

 

I passed on one at FOA back in the late 90's ... I was newly married and my wife was like you want to spend $60K on a 45 year old car? no way! .... now that car is about $600K.

 

These are the stories that really hurt. Cars you could afford but didn't buy are much different than cars that are valuable now but were always out of reach for much of us.

 

The reason I kept my 1995 993 for 17 years. Last air cooled model. Truly the "last of the Mohicans" for Porsche.

 

I know. Thing is I really love that car... always loved the 330gtc... but oh well.

 

Yep, one of the all-time greats.....now you are making me want to take mine out after mostly sitting the past 3 months. And you are right, it takes real driving skill to even come close to mastering it.

 

Looking forward to it....we used to have a guy here named W Mitty who would have really great writeups on cars, he was also very high on the FGT.

 

Yeah, same....Lotus botched its last real opportunity to re-build the brand.....now they are on to Chinese EVs. Even their biggest supporter Harry Metcalfe waved goodbye to them.

 

Well at least you dumped the wife, so some good news....right?

 

been thinking about this thread quite a bit, its not a new subject and seems to crop up every decade.
As long as I've bene on this site (20 years) some of us have been lamenting ferrari does nto make "divers cars" and felt abandoned by the compony.
I know all the counterpoints etc and ferrari has certainly been very financially successful with it's strategy, although one cant help but feel the essential core of the brand has been hollowed out. No doubt running F1 and then building ersatz F1 lux cars for the road has worked. However Ferrari also opened market gaps for the likes of mclaren, and the porche gt(3 and 4rs) series of cars all of whom are building the types of cars ferari used to make. I guess as long as F1 gives the ferrari brand enough cred all is fine.

The thing about flawed strategies is often they take 20+ years of hollowing out to manifest, we see that in numerous industries.
yes paddles only gt cars did not harm ferrari sales.
The SF 90 should have been a wakeup call, that car being a step too far, and first Ferrari special that A. didn't fly of shelves and B. has depreciated. Turns out al all singing digital dash is not desirable (roma tells thsts tory too) and a heavy hybrid v8 is not a stylish v12.

Now we see new 296, sitting on dealers floor for a year looking for msrp, we also see the used manual cars selling for 50% premiums.
Turns out the used car buyer is more of a driving enthusiast than the hedge fund new buyer and more hp, more weight and way more complexity is the nature of a disposable car, not something someone will want to keep and savor for decades.

They have been smart to keep the v12, but just imagine how compelling a "special" 458 could have bene with a stick and v12.

While the 296 is a little awkward from some angles so was the original 250 p from which it draws inspiration. As a driving enthusiast yeah I could scrape together 350k for my dream Ferrari but they make nothing that compels me to feel that way. And yeah i could buy a gt3 but thats a plastic 911 so compelling t drive but not necessarily own.

We all seem to love the 288 Gto and therin lays the formula. Nothing wrong with the 296 ice motor it makes plenty of Hp. Ditch the electrics, gibe it a little flair, add a stick, and some instruments like the 458 had or even better something watch like. Loose a bunch of sound deadening and frippery/weight. it does not have to be as raw as an elise but make it a raw car. Then allow actual buyers to buy it, it will be purposefully too raw and basic/option free for the fashionistas plus stick.

The current car is 3300lbs. the electric components according to Ferrari are 220 of those lbs. Its therefore quite possible for my proposed car to comfortably weigh under 3000 lbs if not under 2900 without resorting to all sorts of exotic materials. Withe the 650 hp the ice motor makes that's more than plenty, yeah its not going to win any paper number war or magazine hot lap, but thats just a bonus for those who know and care. Developing such a car, well its discontenting what they already have, maybe some new seats and yes the stick. How many GT4 did porche sell, 2500 per year for 3 years, same with the 4rs and 7500 Gt3s per year of which 50% are stick. There is a market and its that market as much as any racing that gives the brand cred.

 

I'm still married to her. She's literally the best thing that ever happened to me.

 

Agree, I don't care what divers drive anyway....but they probably have cool watches.