Has Ferrari Lost It's Luster?

How about 8500RPM and you leave your phone at home?

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Dino, as you know I usually do not disagree with you, but relying on aftermarket replacements for these specialized priority electronics for the newer cars is not a given. Each model has very unique engine management systems, and are software programed with no source codes made public. Albeit these new systems are very reliable and have good history to date, therefore most models should have a good lifetime, but woe is the person who gets stuck with a "totaled electronically"

 

One thing to add to this thought: depending on where you are, it may very well be a FELONY to reverse engineer the software and control systems, or to create and/or install replacement systems. There's no restriction on creating a replica mechanical part, but software is a whole different field with different laws. Copyright can block things for quite literally a century.

 

Man that’s UGLY

 

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Ferrari 12C…it’s like getting the new Jaaaguaaar design language a few years in advance.

 

Interesting you mentioned it….I had not bought many new Ferraris. My first was a 355 Spider followed by a 360 in 2003. After the 360 only used cars like the Dino, the Boxer, the SA, 599, F12. I was surprised when Ferrari let me buy a new 2023 812 GTS. If I didn’t have the stroke in 2023 I probably would have kept it.

 

The 355, 550, 360 and 430 all have same crappy immobilizer that are failing. I already know one guy (who is a frequent FChat poster). He is software genius. When my immo failed on my CS, he came out to my home, spent the weekend figuring out the problem. We fixed it, albeit temporary. Since the immo is tied into the ECU's, he reverse engineered the ECU, found the code for the immo and basically deleted it which was fine with me. Car starts every time now.

Since then, he has gone through pretty much most of Ferraris ECU's, found sloppy work by Bosche as well as a lot of hp/tq that they left on the table not to mention the way power is delivered. After helping me with my little problem he has become the world's foremost Ferrari tuner.

When you see Scuds, 430s, 599s converted to manuals, there is a real good chance he wrote the software!

So, I'm pretty sure the aftermarket will find a way.

 

The power, perhaps. Though wonder if he has much leash.

The inclination or the interest? I'm skeptical. Apparently he isn't even aware that he's running an automotive company.

 

For some mysterious reason, that link leads to a thread that I haven't visited in more than a month.

Here's think link I intended to provide: Ferrari in today's WSJ

 

My guess is where you stand on the "luster scale" depends on whether you have owned a Ferrari. I brought my first Ferrari when I was 51. I was giggling driving the car home. Today, after having owned three Ferraris (550, CS, and 330 GTC), it is no longer a bucket list item. Been there, paid the bills, not interested in doing that any more.

The last newer Ferrari that caught my eye was the 458. None of the cars since then appeal to me. I'm sure Ferrari is heart broken.

 

All this seems to echo the talk I used to here on the Porsche chat board. Tech is what sells cars these days. Design, not so much. Guys on the P-chat lamented the loss of the visceral feel of the "older cars" once the new tech was overtaking the 911.

As a response (although over 20 years ago) Porsche offered the 911RS America that was a street car. No A/C, no sunroof, no P/S, and no radio. Only 701 were made. Would that be a viable model now?

Now with that said, IMO, a Porsche is not a Ferrari. Ferrari has a certain mystique. But even with that in mind, there is a point of balance between your image as an exotic car company and considering the feedback from your customer base. With new generations of Ferrari buyers comes a new set of expectations from the Ferrari they buy.

I agree with many here. Ferrari has slipped a few notches. Perhaps resting on their laurels(?) And I also agree, the 458 is the last Ferrari I thought I would be interested in-- until I drove one. The tech in the car simply didn't "connect" with me. I will probably continue to drive my 360 for many more years as I feel it's me driving it without interference from tech I don't need or care to have in my Ferrari.

But I'm old, so there's that

 

Drive by wire is the problem. Drive a 550 and then drive a F12. The difference is stark.

 

15 years ago, Porsche engines were meh. Caymans were underpowered and 911s had the engine in the wrong place.

I bought some anyway because they had fantastic steering feel and still offered manuals.

Then, they went to electric steering (the feel was awful) and added the auto-blip (took all the fun out of the manual). I haven't considered one since.*

I hope I'm not at a similar crossroads with Ferrari.

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* I hear the steering feel has improved and that the auto-blip is now defeatable without ruining the throttle response, so perhaps they deserve another look.

 

Why did companies switch to drive by wire? Simple, nannies, such as lane controls, don't work without drive by wire. Did anybody ask us Dinosaurs if we wanted nanny controls in the first place? Of course not. The legal reality, however, is you can't sell a 700 hp sports car without nannies. How many times has Porsche been sued over the CGT?

I guess us Dinosaurs need to lumber over to the tar pits.

 

Not to be a Rennlist pinhead but the F12 still has hydraulic power steering, although highly boosted for a light feel.

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At least the drive by wire is getting better. But the nannies are getting ever more intrusive.

Forget traction control and stability control and all that. At least in a Ferrari, you can still turn those off (for now) with a quick turn of the mannetino. That's how I generally drive.

Every time I get in my wife's S-class, I have to turn off the auto braking and lane departure warning. It takes three clicks through an annoying touch screen menu.

I love cruise control on the highway. I set it, it maintains my speed perfectly, and I decide how to negotiate traffic, ideally without changing speed.

The Distronic (distance control) is not defeatable. If you approach a car (not particularly closely, even on its least sensitive setting) it adjusts your speed. Imagine approaching a car ahead of you while passing a car on the right, with the intention of slotting ahead of the car on the right once safely past. But then the car abruptly slows you down just as you go to switch lanes.

This happens constantly.

And so, in a 2024 S-Class, I cannot use the cruise control on road trips. Maddening.

And don't get me started on the radio turning on every time I get in a modern car even though I literally never listen to the radio, ever.

Dinosaur, indeed.

 

Interesting, because it felt like drive-by-wire. It was perfect. Everything about the car was perfect. Sadly, perfection is boring.

 

I admit I like back-up cameras. Those are cool.

 

Me too. Hate the beeping parking sensors. But love the camera.

 

But when you go from a 2025 Roma back into the F12, so many things just feel better - and the F12 power delivery is so much more wild and snappy. Roma goes to the nannies where you can floor it and the computers figure out what they're going to let you do. F12 is a car that will break loose if you mash it. To me the only thing the Roma has better is the chassis balance feels a lot smaller and a closer polar rotation, and being newer, a tighter suspension.

 

This.

F12 feels perfectly imperfect when you start to push. And @ryalex should know, you must be top 1% of F12 owners for miles logged.

 

So if you saw my Silver forum thread, I was leaning toward selling it but stuck mentally about what to do. And as I drove it and thought about it, it does almost everything that I ever wanted in a car except that I prefer the balance and steering of rear-mid cars. The power is enough, I have a titanium exhaust that screams, the character we mentioned, perfectly comfortable seating position, smooth Magneride shocks (although holy crap are they expensive, just replaced the rears for ~$10k), great stereo and A/C, back up camera but none of the auto-stop or lane assist nonsense.

If they took an F12 and made it rear-engined, changing nothing in components and same interior, it could have been one of the all time greats. Not that the current version isn't, but it would have been a high water mark of all automobiles.

 

Not just you, the car was very boring to drive and isolates the driver too much from the environment. It went from leader in the clubhouse to driving the cart used to collect range balls.

 

So do modern production Ferrari V-12s....don't understand why they waved the white flag to Lamborghini on that