Has LMP become what F1 should be?

I think if you would have watched LeMans in the late 60's and early 70's when the cars were faster than F1 cars it was a lot more fascinating than even today. But I think the LMP cars are beautiful, but it would be great if it wasn't only Audi out there.

 

It does seem sports car racing is on the leading edge. Perhaps all the prohibitions against innovation in F1 are taking a toll. And the racing, especially in LMS guise, is more exciting and competitive. The ALMS has yet to produce the variety of prototypes to equal the European rounds, but 2007 has potential to be a watershed year. I've found myself drawn once again to sportscars as the lustre of F1 begins to wane. That said, watching an Alonso or a Schumacher is stll without equal.

Cheers.

 

With Audi/Bentley so dominant over the last 7 years, I find the ALMS and ELMS as boring as F1. At least in F1 a few teams have a chance to win.

 

Mr. Moola believes in it, and we all know, what it's all about.
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YZEE, for people (me) with a low racing IQ, who is that?

 

That would be Mr. Rodger Penske in his Porsche Spyder LMP2 suit. Pit lane at Mid-Ohio May 06. Started 1-2, sorta, finished 1-2. Beat the Audi's.

 

Pit lane qualifying.
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Good thinking.

12 cylinders or walk

 

Alex - your comment about being drawn to sportscars as the lustre of F1 begins to wane is exactly those of ours. In fact, the place to be this weekend is not Hockenheim but in Spa for the Proximus 24 Hours of Spa - FIA GT racing. On the entry list are 8 - yes 8 430's, bushel basket of DBR9's, MC12's,c6's, Saleen, Viper, Spyker. The greatest thing is the it costs only 55 Euro for entry/paddock ticket! For 385 Euro you get an "on track" package that is fantastic.

Carol

 

I'll drink to that. Road trip in the AM, in the twisties. 6 cylinders on the gas!

 

I love LMP cars..... but i'll be the first to say i think the Modern F1 car does look better then the LMP-1/2 cars.

I love closed wheel prototypes... but not the Daytona prototypes.... they are ugly as sin IMHO....

somebody mentioned how the prototype cars of the 60's/70's were faster then F1....

but Group C in the 80's to early 90's (and various other iterations that were killed so quickly by Max Mosely) were faster (top end) and nearly as quick.... in fact, i believe on some tracks the Group C cars proved quicker in quali then the F1 cars were.

God.... if i were FIA president, i'd bring Group C back so quickly... the most competitive racing EVER .....

also, part of it comes down to the drivers involved

many of F1's great heros were the best because the other guys couldn't stack up to him in the years that he raced...

Aryton Senna had Prost.... both won 7 titles respectevly... but who has been around to truly contest Michael Schumacher? Mika Hakkonen was good, certainly... but the years he didn't win can easily be attributed to his car... or his tempermant (final race of 1997... although... even Villenuve said "its racing")

bah, ive written too much

 

I don´t know how things are going on in America, but here in Europe nobody cares about Resistance, apart from a few "freaks" like me. Formula 1 is still the King.

And yes, you´ll find a lot of private entries with Aston Martins and Maseratis in the 24 hours of Spa, but in Formula 1 you can find Mercedes, Hondas, BMWs, Toyotas and Ferraris. Who can beat that?

 

You can find Mercedes and Audi in DTM which draws larger crowds than F1; eight Ferrari 430's entered this weekend at Spa is significant; Honda right now is a joke in F1; Toyota does better in the NASCAR - Craftsman truck series in the US with the Tundra than in F1; a crowd of 250,000 + at Le Mans is very significant over maybe on a good day 100,000 for F1 (Audi, Ferrari, Corvette, Aston, Panoz, even the Lambo finished!).

Carol

 

The better question is, in F1, who can beat the Renaults and Ferraris...? and beyond that, who can beat Alonso and Schumacher ?
Apparently nobody.

And now that I said that, we will have a new winner this weekend ?

 

I find GT2 to be the most exciting class in ALMS by far. Ferrari vs Porsche vs Panoz vs BMW.

 

True, but Peugeot is coming to the 2007 Le Mans Series and the 24 Hours of Le Mans with two diesel-powered LMP1s. over 700 hp and over 880 lb-ft of torque. rumor is they will be coupes

Actually, they only beat one Audi R8.

The Porsche RS Sypders that went 1-2 overall at Mid-Ohio last month beat 20 other cars including one Audi R8, three other LMP1 cars, and three LMP2 cars.

Dyson Racing's Butch Leitzinger and James Weaver beat 34 other cars at the 2003 race at Infineon in their # 16 Lola EX257/AER. They beat two Audi R8s, five other P900 (LMP1) cars, and three other P675 (LMP2) cars. The P900 and P675 refers to kilograms.

The Audi R8s had 30 more hp in 2003 than they did in 2005 (520 vs. 550). They likely had more torque in 2003 than in 2005. The one Audi R8 that will be raced this year has 35 more kilograms (around 77 pounds) than in 2005 (935 in 2006 vs. 900 in 2005).

The winning Lola EX257 weighed several hundred pounds less than the 2003 R8, but had around 70 less hp (450 vs 520). They weighed around 1,520 pounds.

The RS Spyder that won at Mid-Ohio weighs around 1,650 pounds, but has 480 hp, support from Porshce (not a factory team, but a factory supported team so they get no money for finishing like privateer teams) and the fact that Penske runs it.

http://motorsport.com/photos/alms/2003/sp/alms-2003-sp-to-0701.jpg

Porsche RS Sypder's chassis

http://www.infoscourse.org/2006_ALMS/Porsche_RSSpyder_Chassis.jpg

An LMP2 team in ALMS, Van der Steur Racing, will race an all-new Radical SR9 at Petit Le Mans. They've raced an old Lola in P2.

http://americanlemans.com/News/Article.aspx?ID=1775

One SR9 finished 5th in class and 20th overall at the 24 Hours of Le Mans this year despite it being the third race for an SR9.

 

Yes, you are correct, one Audi at Mid-Ohio. An 03 or 04, R-8 pulled from display at Champion since the new R-10's were in Europe preparing for Le Mans.

 

Haven't the LMP cars always been open to technology and what not?

LMP rules

http://www.lemans.org/sport/sport/reglements/ressources/auto_2006/Regl_2006_prototype_ACO_fr_gb.pdf

There will be Noise regulations for 2007 ACO races

(ACO sanctions the 24 Hours of Le Mans)

From the ACO rule book for GT cars and prototypes:

"Dynamic sound readings will be taken during the 2006 events. The method of measurement and the results will be given to the competitors for information. As from 01/01/2007 the sound emitted from each car must not exceed 113 dbA during the qualifying, practices, and the race. The measurement will be made at 15 meters [around 49.2 feet] from the edge of the track."

In 2007, ALL LMP cars will need to meet the new regulations.

ACO doesn't want LMP cars flipping like Yannick Dalmas’ Porsche 911 GT1 at Petit Le Mans in 1998, Le Mans in 1999, or Bill Auberlen's flip at Petit Le Mans in 2000 with a BMW prototype.

http://www.mulsannescorner.com/techarticle1.htm

http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/autoindustry/22413/

The new Audi R10, Radical SR9, Peugeot 908, Lola B06/10, and the next-gen LMPs will be much safer at over 220 mph than LMPs from the late 1990s.

The ACO needs to open up the Mulsanne Straight.

They should test the cars a day before the 2007 Le Mans test day and see how stable the cars are. Audi and Peugeot are pouring millions into their cars.

I've heard the gates/barriers are being pushed back too much to be able to see the cars well enough. Is that true?

Le Mans, 1971.
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We were at the Mulsanne Straight about 10:30 pm this year standing on the berm with a great view of the cars which were not far away. Depending where we walked, we could see them coming out of Tertre Rouge onto the straight. We were even much closer to the cars at Arnage - could see them as they came out of Indianapolis and we spent most of our time at the sharp turn at Arnage. Same was true for getting great views of the cars as they came thru the Dunlop Curves just prior to the Dunlop bridge.

The Audi's were extremely quite although they had their own sound that you could definitely define in the dark in the middle of the night. The Lambo was ear piercing loud. The 430 was very loud coming down thru the pits.

2007 should be a great race.

Carol

 

I went to the Portland ALMS race, but thought the R10s sounded boring.

Why race a diesel except for marketing reasons?

Ulrich Baretzky is the head of engine technology at Audi Sport. The following is from the April, 2006 issue of Car & Driver:

"Baretzky wasn't forthcoming about precise dimensions or mass. But he did suggest that the diesel V-12 would weigh about 50 percent more than the 385-pound R8 V-8. If so, the diesel should weigh about 580 pounds."

I hope the P1 coupes look as good as some of the Group C cars.

check this article

http://www.google.com/translate?u=http://www.endurance-info.com/article.php?sid=2216&thold=0

Riley LMP1 coupe

http://theracesite.com/index.cfm?pagetype=2&form_article=9580

New Lola B10/10

http://www.google.com/translate?u=http://www.endurance-info.com/article.php?sid=2238
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Kinda resembles this one, except for the nose (I like the Porsche better) and the little side fins:
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I like this too:

Carol
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The artist rendition isn't 100 % exactly what the 2010 coupes will look like.