Has the Brawn/Jensen Button situation ever happened before? | FerrariChat
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Has the Brawn/Jensen Button situation ever happened before?

Discussion in 'F1' started by PSk, Jun 1, 2009.

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  1. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    Pete
    #1 PSk, Jun 1, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2009
    I'm trying to think but I cannot remember any team making such a massive change in performance like this before, AND a driver almost on his way out of the sport (business) suddenly being the luckiest driver on the grid.

    I know when the Wolf team started they won the first 2 races, but they then faded ...

    I think the closest team turn around like this I can think off was McLaren when Project 4 took over (Ron Dennis and Barnard) resulting in the MP4 and the path to the current team we have today. But I don't think the MP4 was a winner straight out of the box ... have to research this. And the answer is it took half a season to get the MP4 firing (and on a side note Gordon Murray takes way too much IMO of the credit for the success of these McLarens with his version starting at the MP4/4. Barnard laided the foundation):
    Maybe Benetton?
    Pete
     
  2. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

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    #2 DeSoto, Jun 1, 2009
    I think Benetton only won a race in their first year, they needed almost ten years to became World Champions.

    I can´t remember something like this in modern Formula 1, I don´t know in the early years.
     
  3. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    #3 PSk, Jun 1, 2009
    Maybe Mercedes in '54, but then they didn't really start until half way through the season ... thus even though they started winning straight away Fangio won the WDC because he was racing a Maserati and accumulating points with it for the first half.

    Pete
     
  4. JohnLClark

    JohnLClark Karting

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    #4 JohnLClark, Jun 1, 2009
    What about when Ferrari took over the Alfa team in 1933.
     
  5. GTE

    GTE F1 World Champ

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    #5 GTE, Jun 1, 2009
    What about when Lotus was the team to make ground-effect work? Or Cooper with their engine behind the driver?

    And then there's of course Nigel Mansell, who announced his retirement of the sport in 1990 only to return with Williams, losing the title in the final race, cruising to the championship the year after because Williams was the only team that managed to built a decent active suspension.
     
  6. Isobel

    Isobel F1 World Champ

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    #6 Isobel, Jun 1, 2009
    Tyrrell 1970 -1971? The 001 showed promise in qualifying in 1970 where it competed in only 3 events but dnf'd every race. In 1971, Tyrrell had both the WDC and WCC.
     
  7. Beta Scorpion

    Beta Scorpion Formula 3

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    #7 Beta Scorpion, Jun 1, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2009
    Just looking at WDC:

    Years from first F1 appearance as constructor to first WDC (inclusive),
    Alfa 1 (1950)
    Brawn (1 possible) (2009)
    *Mercedes (1? see below)
    Tyrrel 2 (1968-1969)
    Ferrari 3 (1950-1952)
    Williams 3 (1978-1980)
    Renault (from re-entry) 4 (2002-2005)
    Brabham (car) 5 (1962-1966)
    Maserati 8 (1950-1957)
    Cooper 9 (1950-1958)
    Benetton 9 (1986-1994)
    McLaren 10 (1963-1972)



    *Mercedes is hard to fit in here. They started F1 in 1954 and Fangio was WDC 1954, but he only drove the Mercedes 1/2 the year and Mercedes did not make WCC
     
  8. SRT Mike

    SRT Mike Two Time F1 World Champ

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    #8 SRT Mike, Jun 1, 2009
    Definitely Villeneuve with Williams.

    He wasn't really on his way out, but he wasn't a superstar driver, and won because the Williams was a phenomenal car. I remember in an interview once, one of the designers of the car said it was so far ahead of the competition, that they were surprised JV didn't win the WDC by a much larger margin.
     
  9. lmunz22

    lmunz22 Formula 3

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    #9 lmunz22, Jun 1, 2009
    You have the complete opposite of this with McLaren....
     
  10. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    #10 PSk, Jun 1, 2009
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    Alfa Romeo were winning before ... so don't understand this comment? The P2 was successful and designed by Jano who designed the P3. All Scuderia Ferrari did was race them and developed them, I'm sure with Jano's involvement.
    Yes unfortunately they have designed a not so good car, bit like Williams are few years ago when one of the CART drivers had a go at F1.

    Pete
     
  11. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    #11 PSk, Jun 1, 2009
    But wasn't the Williams already a competitive car the year before?

    Pete
     
  12. SRT Mike

    SRT Mike Two Time F1 World Champ

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    #12 SRT Mike, Jun 1, 2009
    Yup, you're absolutely right... although I guess you could go back to 94 when Williams were on the rise.... but in terms of going from crap to awesome and a boosting a driver from the back to the front, I can't really think of a comparable situation.
     
  13. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    #13 PSk, Jun 1, 2009
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    As much as I am an Alfisti this one does not really count because the 158/159 was already winning, F1 just became the new formula.
    Yes does not really count because they would not have won the manufacturers champ in 54 (if there had been one) due to only competing in half the season, but it is the closest :).
    And this was really because the opposition was weak ...
    They were also like Alfa Romeo racing before the series was called F1.
    Did not realise that Cooper started in 1950?
    Interesting.
    Pete
     
  14. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ

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    #14 spirot, Jun 1, 2009
    How about Matra?.... guess 1969 with Stewart does not count....
     
  15. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    #15 PSk, Jun 1, 2009
    Yes I think Matra is the closest, as they started in '68 and lets face it Brawn has not started from completely nothing.

    We've all agreed that while JB might not be a spectacular driver he is consistent and makes few mistakes, exactly what is required when we have a car advantage that we do not want to waste.
    Pete
     
  16. Isobel

    Isobel F1 World Champ

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    #16 Isobel, Jun 1, 2009
    For the car alone, I'll still make my case for the '70-'71 Tyrrell. The team may have been known but the car was the first bonafide in-house Tyrrell design, not a Matra or March. Like the Brawn, it won the WDC and WCC in its first full season ;). The Matra competed in 1967, almost won the WDC in 68 then took the double in 69.

    As for drivers, I agree with Tom, Stewart wasn't much of a 'secret' weapon, although his first WDC was in the Matra, and he had been in F1 since 1965.
     
  17. Il Vecchio

    Il Vecchio F1 Rookie

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    #17 Il Vecchio, Jun 4, 2009
    How about:

    1) Ligier in 1979;
    2) Arrows in 1997.
     

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