Has the tide turned on depreciation for 355? have they started increasing in value?

The number of cars sold may have some effect on the actual price paid but shouldn't effect the relative value of the various models.

If you are saying that F360s are valued significantly higher than 355s in the US, that is the interesting bit because it's not the case elsewhere in the world.

 

I would laugh if someone offered $55k for my GTS. It's not for sale but thinking I would part with it for that much if it was is humorous.

 

I would not part with my 99 GTS for anything under $80k with the low miles and all the options on my car with a 4 year warrantee.

 

Following cars is for sale in Sweden at the moment use exchange rate around 7 (divide)


28 okt 09:41
Ferrari 355 GTB -95
325 000:-

25 okt 15:53
Ferrari 355 F GTB NYSERVAD -95
350 000:-

29 okt 16:50
Ferrari 355 GTS -98
379 000:-

17 okt 09:53
Ferrari 355 GTB Kolfiber, -97
384 900:-

9 okt 07:50
Ferrari 355 Berlinetta -95
385 000:-

8 nov 09:58
Ferrari 355 F1 Berlinetta -98
397 000:-

10 nov 10:32
Ferrari 355 Spider -97
445 000:-

17 nov 08:16
Ferrari 355 GTB Berlinetta / Challenge / -95
460 000:-

21 okt 20:21
Ferrari 355 Targa -95
525 000:-

 

I love pricing threads...

Using foreign pricing is BS. The big question I ask.. is if prices are that much higher overseas, why aren't American cars being exported overseas in droves (like 993s)? I haven't heard of this happening. I suspect that the reason is import taxes will be close to 100% of the cars value in addition to shipping fees, etc. etc. Which in the end explains the cars elevated value over US cars. Less production of the 355 vs. 360 explains the other.

Then.. we have ASKING prices versus COMPLETED TRANSACTION prices. Best place I could find this was ebay. Asking prices for the 21 355's on there (mostly spyders btw) seemed to range $40k to 100k. The 62 360's seemed to range from $62 ish to 100k+. So what a difference of 20% more Asking price? Completed sales seems to be about $40-50 completed sales vs the 360 is about $60-70. My eyeballing the numbers admittedly so 20% premium. BTW 52 430's at $100k+. Granted low mileage cars always sell for the premium price... after sitting for years it seems.

I hope you guys get the 993 effect for the 355.. but I can't say that I see it.. I also don't think its realistic to make comments on price when the seller has no motive to actually sell. This usually results in a sky high asking that never results in a completed sale.

It looks like all exotic pricing has been elevated by the recent stock market. Keep on buying the bonds..

 

Unfortunately Americans are influenced more by advertising and status then any other culture. The Car companies among many others have seen to have don a most effective job brainwashing us of what we need. Not sure we even know whats a good product at this point.
I'm glad I do not watch TV to be effected by it or listen to any ones else's opinion on something.

Viagra LOL yeah It put the nail in the coffin

 

That car is almost as nice as mine

I love the black carpet and it's rare. I'm pretty sure this car was for sale a few months back. Looks like it needs stickey parts refin....

As of today thye list it for $74.5 and I doubt they will get that much - more power to them if they do...

 

You can get a nice GTB for 50k in canada easy. My friend had a nice 95 gtb yellow could'nt get rid of it for six mths ,let it go for 48k.There was a nice red 97 GTB last year forsale low Km at a repo lot selling for mths for 45k. In the states you guy's like your GTB and GTS because you like to track your cars,Here in Canada we don't have the tracks so the spiders are worth much more money.

 

Seems like the car prices in Washington + Oregon + N.California to be little higher than other US regions.

 

I totaled receipts from the previous owner of my F355 and he spent ~$20K on a major and repairs in '08, $4K on repairs in '09, $6K on repairs in '10, ~$1K on maintenance between '11 and '12, and $15K on a major and repairs in '13. That's averaging $7K to $8K a year!

The car was serviced at a reputable independent Ferrari shop. Labor rates looked reasonable. Labor hours looked reasonable. Diagnostics looked reasonable (i.e. no shotgun parts replacement, only replacing maintenance parts and parts that break). I don't believe that F355 maintenance nightmare is just a folktale.

Here's what I think is happening:

Owners that bought F355's a few years back then they were closer to ~$100K are still maintaining them in decent shape, but are now selling them off due to poor reliability and expensive maintenance.

Buyer in the current $40-$50K range will have a hard time justifying the necessary upkeep and repair costs to keep them in top shape so more and more F355 will fall in disrepair. This will drag down F355 values across the board and ultimately many will be run-down and scrapped for parts, so in short term average F355 selling price with outstanding repair and maintenance issues will be trending toward zero.

In ~20 years there will be a lot less F355s to go around, so I can see price recovery at that point...

 

Join the real world. The way I see it is that you buy and F355 for say $55k. Drive it for 5 years. You put $30k into maintenance, including a major just before you sell it. Total invested, $85k. Sell if for $55k and you're out $30k. Or, buy an new BMW 435i for $55k. Drive it for 5 years and sell it for $25k, if you're lucky. You're out $30k and that doesn't even consider maintenance on the 4 series.

If you stop thinking about these cars as exotics and start thinking of them as cars you will see that they are not that expensive to own and maintain, net, net. So the only question is which would you rather drive, and F355 or a new BMW 435? So the point is, if you can not afford a new 435i you probably should not be considering an F355.

I don't think we can expect appreciation any time soon, but I don't expect further depreciation for maintained cars. So, owning a new 4 series or a 355 for 5 years, more or less, will cost you about the same.

 

I'd be very curious to see the '08, '09, '10, and '13 repairs if you do not mind...not the actual details but maybe top level line items and ballpark costs.

From my experience there are ways to get things done without getting hosed. I even found the F355 yearly service costs to vary between $700 and $1,800 within a reasonably tight geographic area, so that's almost a 3:1 ratio. With that in mind I wonder if your $7-8K per year could have been closer to an average of $3K per year at the right shop.

 

The biggest problem with 4 and 5 figure repairs IMHO and experience has been the wife and managing her comments "WHY ARE YOU SPENDING $$$$$$ ON THAT OLD FERRARI"????

You don't get that when you're single and bringing in the bucks… or when you have a new 4-series that's covered under warranty. THAT is the true impediment to ownership.

 

John I agree to a degree since I bought a 335xi new in 08. The issues is I paid 50, it's now worth 20 at best so you numbers are pretty close....but, I put on 100k miles. So the drive for 5 years and spend 30k to do so is not linear since I'll drive my F car maybe 15k miles in 5 years....

 

+1 well said

 

Resale value only matters if you plan on selling the car. And if you plan on selling the car stop driving it since you are only making it worth less. Otherwise, drive it like you stole it and enjoy life. I will put the money into maintenance not because of the difference it makes in resale but instead because of the difference it makes in my enjoyment of the car.

 

I knew someone would go there. I bought my first Ferrari in 85. Bought my first BMW in 89. Put 120k on the BMW before I sold it in 96. Put 30k on my first Ferrari and I still have it. If I invested the money I spend on the 308 I could be driving a 458 today. I guess what I am trying to say is that there is no justification for what we do. We are all sick little boys who need our toys. Dam the torpedoes. Full speed ahead!

 

Belt services were around $2,800 parts and $5,800 labor.

Some of the repairs were: Air bag ECU, Radiator Fan, Clutch/flywheel, Interior sticky parts, Seat cushions, Muffler, Cv boots, Electrical system (relays, etc), Engine mounts, Ebrake, Fuel pump, Catalytic converters

There is another guy next town over from me that just spent $35K on getting his F355 sorted out and bringing to top condition. I don't think my F355's previous owner costs were out of line for maintaining the car in top shape. Actually I think this costs could have easily been a lot higher in a wrong shop.

Here's a typical repair bill (from May 2008 Flywheel/clutch and catalytic converters):
Labor Service - Help unload car from trailer &:hoist io inspect clutch problems.
Disassemble clutch & inspect,
Found flywheel to have leaked grease on disc. plate and flywheel warped bad.
Left Cat coming apart, grease in flywheel tainted with gear lube and rear flywheel bearing leaking grease quite bad.
Throw out bearing found to be OE.type and customer agreed to reseal.
Flywheel found to be in excess of $5000.00 - decision to fabricate new jig, machine
surface & replace / reseal all grease.
Fabricate jig to adapt frictions surface to surface grinder, go to machine shop & verify
operation - should work fine. (no charge - shop tool)
Remove TOB & reseal - slightly noisy but should be ok.
Complete overhaul of flywheel, weight out proper amount of grease & assemble all.
Replace one intermediate flywheel bearing.
Assemble to bell housing & replace rear main bearing.
Replace both Cat. converters with Hyper Flow.
Service both 02 sensors and assemble.
Replace and repair hardware as needed.
Check new clutch parts - found to be acceptable - assemble all.
Replace shaft triple seals & o ring.
Assemble rear of car & test run.
No leakage or vrbration.
Flush cluich hydraulic system x 3.
Test drive x 5 clutch operation & flywheel balance found to be good.
Test car for running hot
Found fuse blown on right cooling fan.
Replace fuse & retest.
Left fan operating strangely, only on for a second.
Test wiring via A/C system- ok.
Test grounds - ok. :
lnspect & replace cooling svstem bleeder hoses (No charge should have been done at
service time) fill & test.
Order fan thermo switch & install - fan operation now consistent & proper - gauge reads
high from a likely dirty sensor.
Both fans cycle properly now.
Left fan found to have bad bushings and is still likely repairable
Deliver car to alignment shop for a retest of the alignment in the front.
Tires found to be too far gone for a safe trip - replace with 2 good used front tires
Pick up at alignment shop & found air bag light on dim.
Perform SD test - found passenger side harness to have fault.

You can see itemized parts costs in the attachment jpeg, I think parts were billed on par of what they sell for online.

Parts $4,245 17
Labor $2,209.80
Sublet $131 .75
Supply Charge $10.50
Haz. Materials $18.75
Freig ht $'190.64
Sub Total $6,806.61
Sales Tax 202 15

Total: $7,008.76
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Or you can buy a used bimmer and drive it for next to nothing. I have an 01' 325 convertible that I bought in the spring and been pretty happy with so far - solid car, looks great, drives great, parts are readily available and repairs are inexpensive. Used cars are used cars, comparing them to depreciation on a new car is apples to oranges IMHO.

 

My understanding is that the engine out service is between 24-40 hrs depending on who you ask so if you factor in the labor cost you can see the equivalent hourly rate. If it was charged twice the same amount in different years (different services) then I'd have to say it's the higher end of the range for servicing the engine out...

Parts for engine out - the Ricambi kit is $1,500 I think and equivalent from the UK is lower, so that tells you the markup on parts.

 

Can you link to what's included in Ricambi kit? I can't find it.

Here's what was replaced at the 08' major (jpeg attachment). I think prices are inline with what's available online:
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2013 service:
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Here's a link to the Ricambi kit

355 30K Service Kit : Ricambi America

 

I cross-referenced parts list on Ricambi's page and added up prices from the itemized bill for the last major on my F355 (May 13) and those parts were billed at $1838.86.

That's 15% differences between $1600 listed on Ricambi's page.

 

I doubt your dealer buys from Ricambi. Try pricing it from www.eurospares.co.uk (under service kits) or Ferrari parts from Superformance: Ferrari Dino V6, Ferrari V8 & Ferrari V12 specialists - 308, 246, 206, 328, 348, 355 & Fiat Dino to see the other end of the spectrum. Probably around $700 or so? with the tensioners.