Header prices and valve guides

The headers WILL fail - there are many on here who have had to replace them. The valve guides are a different animal - not as many here that have had REAL world experience at fixing them...Buy a 98 or 99 and don't sweat it...

 

Then buy the car and enjoy, when it breaks fix it and drive some more..nuff said.

 

Or buy a cheaper '95-'97 that needs a service (negotiate down for it) and put up the extra $2500 for the guides to be replaced during the service.

 

that too--

 

For some reason I thought the guides were $25k to replaced, not $2500.

 

If the motor is out, I believe parts alone will run around $2500--then labor to replace. Maybe a $4k job??? Anyone???

 

For example let say you have a 1995 355 with no recent service and low compression, original guides, headers, manifolds. She needs the full works. What is the estimate to fix/replace it all plus a new clutch for good measure?

 

Now that's getting to it. Anybody done all this? Any mechanics can quote a price?

 

A recent thread indicated the labor was almost nil because the engine was out for the service.

 

Here is a quote from the master "E" website...

www.EugeniosFerrariService.com

F355 owners : We currently offer a complete Head Rebuild along with a Major Service for F355's. F355's built between 1995 to early 1998 have the well known "inferior" valve guides orginally used by Ferrari, and the heads on these cars will not last. This complete service includes completely removing and rebuilding the heads along with a complete Major Service and a water pump and front seal. This particular type of Major Service with Head Rebuild is approximately $12995.

 

Not an expert, but since no one else has responded about the headers and prices, here's my take on headers.
1. The cheapest way to go is to have the stock units "refurbished" by Quicksilver in England. They replace the tubes with better material. Price seems to be $2200. Lifetime guarantee.
2. NAPerformance headers are replacements, claim hp and torque improvements, and are about $3600.
3. TUBI and others sell higher-priced headers, and there are several potential sources here on FerrariChat (Search). They will also claim HP and torque improvements.

The stock headers will fail. And keep in mind that they sometimes take other parts of the engine when they go - I read a post here about someone who heard the exhaust fail when they started the car, drove carefully home, and then needed a complete engine rebuild. This is probably a horror story, but is enough to influence me.

Apparently, people who have fixed these problems keep their cars forever. I've been looking for over 6 months and have found two cars (a Spyder and a GTS) that fixed both. You are probably going to have to do some of this yourself.

I wonder if Eugenio's has any "last straw" customers who have fixed everything and want to get rid of the cars?

I'm looking for a great '95 red/tan B that has super compression but is due a major (and that is reflected in the price). When I do the major, I'll do the valve guides (seems to cost $2500 when the major is being done at an independent shop) and Quicksilver or NA the headers. Option #2 is a steel guide car (after build #27689) with a fresh major and fix the headers myself.

Then, I'll do 8499 RPM (FullChat any time I feel like it!

 

OK - the ballpark for full service, valve guides, perfromance headers, clutch, water pump, shocks, mounts, and anything else a non-serviced 355 may need that is not out of the ordinary looks like all of $25,000.00.

A few weeks ago I looked at Manheim results for 1995's and they were mid 40's to mid 50's. I would assume that these examples would need all of the above service.

So I'd say that 65 to 75 would be reasonable for a fully sorted 1995 with 25-35k miles. Sound good to you all?

 

yes

 

I don't think you'll find a car with all of that work done, and it'd be way over $75k at a reputable dealer if you could. If you buy the car at auction and get all of the work done at an independent shop, and are lucky, $75k is doable, IMHO. (55+25 = 80, BTW, which is closer to my guess).

 

I think that a 1995 355B, fully sorted, is gonna have a hard time pulling more than 75K at full retail. So buying at auction and fixing is not a money maker - especially when you factor in the risk of even bigger expenses than just the usual items. Perhaps the best "deal" is to buy a sorted 1998/99 around $95k and hope to avoid the valve/header fiasco. Just my uneducated armchair opinions - which I hope are taken with a good dose of salt.

 

The cost you can get these jobs done for is widely variable, it depends who you know, as an example I have had a slipping clutch sorted, 2 new cats and 2nd user standard silencer fitted, new rear shock and major service including bearings done for US$4000 all in (in the UK by guys with 30yrs Ferrari experience).

The major cost factor is using franchised dealers to fit parts which arrive in small yellow boxes. The valve guides are (relatively) simple and a good engine shop can make new ones which are MASSIVELY cheaper than the Ferrari part and probably superior material. The engine may have 40 of them, but other than that an engine is an engine and for a good engine builder I imagine the valve guide issue is a simple job to fix. As I say, you just need to know the right people.

But as someone hinted at above. These are £100,000 cars...buy, drive it, if it breaks mend it then drive it again. If you are worried about the potential repair bills then you arn't going to enjoy the drive - I only learnt to appreciate that after I made the purchase, its a wise statement.

 

Hi Dragster,

Just my pennies worth but potentially any car can lead to big bills down the road, the only difference with higher initial cost cars is that the write off factor is unlikely to be reached i.e. $10k car, max $10k exposure, $80k car....

For sure though these do have issues as folks have noted, and some that do keep re-occuring if you put oem parts back on but I think many owners have very good experiences, the picture you will predominantly hear is from those that haven't so it often makes things sound worse than they are.

I had a 355 for 3yrs and right up until I sold it I would agree with everyone's comments that told me they were bullet proof engines. I was unlucky and a couple of the oil rings ate themselves and took a liner or two with. Whilst doing a full engine strip I also had a manifold (header) replaced, (other side done previous year), and also had valve guides done.

Valve guides did have far too much play in them compared to ideal (mileage 22k) but they weren't leaking oil , I think this is often the case but often paranoia sets in. As I was having an engine rebuild I got mine done but in the UK from speaking to dealers and indie's it seems the minority need repairs rather than the majority. Mine was a 96 spider, and a race engineering shop drilled and sleeved the guides rather than heat, pull and insert new ones. Others have told me just as good if not better as it doesn't stress the heads. Cost £1150 including lapping but you would have to add labour costs to take heads off and strip and rebuild. Suspect £1500 at a guess. I suspect that there will be a higher repair rate on these than ideal due to material wear, but I don't think it's as dire as folks suggest i.e. 100% dead cert, as before, in the uk it's a rarely needed repair apparently.

Headers, I had last one sent to JPExhausts in england, repair cost for replacement internals £470. Could have been a tad tidier on heat shield but fundamentally good and far cheaper than other folks quoted. With hindsight I would personally if I had a 355 again get the headers replaced straight away even if they hadn't gone (unless they have been changed from oem). There seem to be too many issues such as burnt valves and potentially the engine strip down mine needed that can stem from the headers failing. For around £1100 it seems money well spent to me particularly as they WILL go ultimately anyway. What's the point of risking a $25k rebuild. Hindsight is a great thing!!!

The rest of it, hell as the others have said, it's a car, things wear, and everything else such as clutches etc are not too bad cost wise (f1 more expensive but most over here prefer/recommened the manual gearbox on the 355).

Awesome car, still absolutely stunning imo and to me with a tubi or capristo or another exhaust of that ilk it truly does spine tingle. Then take it on a track and it goes to another level.

Buy sensibly, think about budgeting for the headers, if you can get a steel valve guide car then great, but plenty of folks crash these so expensive little parts are reasonably easy to come by thru cheaper means than ferrari parts desks if needed - You'll have a blast!!!!

As said, just my humble pennies worth

 

I remember doing a search a while back where there was very insightful information regarding the valve guide issue on the 355. Apparently NOT ALL cars from 1995-1998 (early) had these valve guides. A few bad batch ones were installed in some of these cars.

Anyways, I'd just like to comment on that. Chances are that if someone purchases a '95-'98 355 that has already had it's first 30,000 mile service done at an authorized Ferrari dealership, it should have the updates; OR the valve guides checked and verified that they are intact.

It's funny how you 355 guys have the valve guide issue from 1995-1998 whilst those in other forums owning Porsche 993s from 1996-1998 are currently coping with the exact same issue! Maybe Porsche and Ferrari were conspiring to do this.

 

Best tip.

Personally, I wouldn't consider a car without the guides replaced. The headers I can deal with - I'd just replace them or have QV London do them. This is odd since the header work can be more expensive.

 

It would need excellent compression/leakdown numbers. Though if it had very low miles, the guide issue can always rear its ugly head after some use. Unless you don't plan on driving it, like some people on here