HELP!! 308 GTSi Shift Lever Won't Work

I think someone who has done it several times might be able to do it by feel. But, really, I think if you lost it in the gearbox the cover will have to come off and you will have to do a shift alignment from scratch as it were. You can do it yourself, but I understand the frustration as what you thought was a simple task just got 5 times more complicated.

Seamus

 

It sounds like shifter lever (23) in the trans are no longer in alignment with the rocker arms (7). The best way to resolve this is to remove the bottom of the trans (after draining out the oil - be careful of the 3 sets of springs and balls (16,17,18) when you remove the case). Once inside, you will be able to see how the gear selection works. To do the job, it's best to have someone in the car holding the shifter while you make the adjustments on the outside shifter linkage. Then have that person go throught the gears as you watch the shifting take place in the trans. It will take a few adjustments to get it right. Even the slightest movement on the linkage adjustment will throw the gear selection off.
It sounds more complicated that it really is, once you understand how the pieces work together. Good luck.

 

Try this: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=159281

I posted my amateur write-up on the procedure. I didn't get dinged on it (yet) .

 

I would think if someone could take a picture of all three selector shafts aligned in neutral you would have your problem solved. I had this problem once with an old Bronco and that is how we cured it. The forks where just out of place in reference to the neutral in the shift gate. Just my 2 cents.

 

Mark,

It's not that difficult to get into the gearbox. Just drain the gear oil, take the pan off. Have someone sit in the driver seat while you look at what happens as he selects gears using the lever. You should be able to figure it out that way.

If you do this, be aware of the springs and balls for detents in the rods...just study the parts manual to see what I mean. Don't lose the springs and balls...

-matt
'85 euro 308

 

In my opinion, it is total BS that the sump needs to be removed to readjust shift linkage.
Agree, it is a pain, but with someone that knows what the're doing in the car and someone
who understands WHAT the're doing under the car, it can be sucessfully adjusted.
I've done it twice in the past few years.

 

You couldn't be more right.

How are you doing Larry?

 

I cant be 100% sure, but i'm 99.99999% sure that taking the gear lever assembly apart will do NOTHING to the inside of the gearbox. The only place where the shaft is seperable is at the shift lever adjustment union in front of the gearbox. And because the gear lever housing bolts ridgidly to the tunnel with no adjustment, if you take it part and reassemble it properly, it should still work. That is, if it was properly in adjusment beforehand.

The shifting has very low clearance specifications. Just having the lever a hair off side to side can screw it up. With the lever in second gear, the lever shouldnt be touching the gate on either side, or touching the end of the slot, nor generally in the other gears. So its highly possible that R&Ring the gearlever assembly could have "nudged" the adjustment off enough to screw you up.

Under the car at the gear lever adjuster, loosen the adjustment nuts and place the gearbox into second gear and adjust the gear lever. I believe you will solve your problem there.

 

Agreed that it is entirely possible to adjust without removing the sump if you know what you're doing.

If you've never looked inside the gearbox, taking the sump cover off will expose everything and make it quite easy and clear, but that does entail draining fluid and refilling, and likely replacement of that gasket, and being careful with balls and springs, etc.

Try to do it without removing the cover, but if you give up, it's not a huge deal to take the sump cover off.

-matt

 

I guess I could not imagine that the gear shift lever was moving around without connection, yet the shift forks were okay. I suppose that is possible, but having been through part of this myself as a newbie it seemed to me that when you have lost the gears it is because the shift forks are off in the weeds.

Also, again speaking as a someone new, I simply cannot imagine getting the shift forks right in the gearbox without taking that cover off. When you have been there it is easy. If you have cannot picture what is happening on the other side of that sump cover you probably are not going to be successful doing it by feel or the orientation of the shift shaft.

Seamus

 

Umm, Maybe...
My guess is that what's happened is that while the shift lever was disconnected to replace the inner shift shaft bushing that the lever moved enough to drop the L end out from between the 3 shift forks. It's even possible that the lever was accidently rotated 180 degrees while the bushing is being installed. Once out from between the 3 shift forks, getting it back in between them is a 'feel' thing.

Also, the if the old bushing was off-center as they often are, the new bushing may just be putting the lever off far enough so that the gate won't let things work(been there too).

If I were there I probably could get it back aligned with your help, but I think Seamus is right, it really takes someone who can visualize what's happening inside the tranny based on what he's feeling. Good news is that it really isn't hard to sort out with the tranny sump cover off.

My advise is to pull the tranny cover, or at least start the tranny draining BEFORE you go on vacation. This will let you work on it w/o getting a lot of oil in your eyes(been there).

 

If Verell is correct and the shaft rotated 90 degrees, the simple fix is to rotate it back. While I agree you can certainly see the mechanism with the sump cover off much more clearly, I also believe you can "feel" you way back home. The fact is, when the shift lever is in the fore and aft second and third gear longitudinal plane, the cross bolt that holds the shaft together in front of the gearbox is horizontal. Get that part back in its correct orientation, and you should be able to place the gearbox in various gears by pushing or pulling the shaft.

Even if as Verell has suggested, a new bushing has thrown the adjustment off slightly, it should still be relatively close. Put the bolt horizontal, and push it aft, and it should be in second gear. Now do your shift lever adjustment and your problem should be behind you. Actually, you can most likely flip the shaft inside the gearbox 180 degrees from under the car after removing the crossbolt, and never have to monkey with the gearlever housing.

 

I've fixed this problem a few times before in the past without having to remove the pan.The first time I did it I didn't even know that it could be done with the pan off!The job is twice the pain if you do it alone.With someone in the car it's much easier to do

 

Mark,

Give it the old poke and hope for a while. You very well might get it back into alignment. As said before, if you can visualize what's going on in the trans, you will be able to do this without opening it up. If not, drop the trans pan and then it will become very clear what needs to be done. Good luck.

 

I seem to recall that there was a thread on this with pictures of the pan removed showing what the rods should look like. I don't know where it is but I recall it showed the 90* shift rod end and how you need to move it to make it work again. Does anyone remember the thread????

 

I think you mean this thread:
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24678

The pix are in it, but you sort of have to have an idea what you're looking at to interpret them. Maybe taking a good look at the FPC at the same time as the pix will let you figure it out.

 

Yep , that's the one. Nice find Verell. I guess working with the info on a few of these threads may give you an idea on how to line up the rod without removing the cover. But incase you need to remove the cover it looks like a simple job but just need to make sure you catch the springs and balls. Thanks

 

OP,

Read Paul's last 2 posts he is right and right. You'll learn more Verell's way... then you will know Paul was right.

 

I've done the adjustment a couple of times too, and still cannot imagine being able to do it with the sump cover on. It is just too precise. Only after years of practice could this be done accurately without seeing it. JMHO.

Taking that cover off is simple (much easier than the crankcase sump!), and then you can get it perfect. Two people make it MUCH easier. Sounds to me like the new bushing simply put it a little out of whack.

 

I do not claim to have years of experience with Ferrari or in particular the 308 gear lever adjustment, nor would I claim to be any smarter than anyone else. But I will admit I do get frustrated that I always seem to be alone fixing my own stuff after fixing everyone elses, and over the years my crabby attitude has forced me to find ways to work alone and solve problems by myself.

The second 308 I bought had the gearlever go stupid about a mile from home. I cant recall now exactly, but it seems I had only either first and reverse, or second and reverse, and everything else was missing. So I about faced and I headed back to the garage and put her up and stands (again). I pried the sump cover off (and lost all the $$$ oil I put in a few days before) to locate the problem. I assumed a fork or lever had come loose and slipped, but no, everything was tight. What I believe happens is the shift pawl (the finger that works the other three fingers) moves out of its groove and goes out into empty space if the lever isnt adjusted correctly. So I readjusted the lever, spent better than an hour laying on my back carefully scraping glued on paper gasket off the gearbox and cover, and angry I didnt find anything wrong inside. I put it back together with a new gasket, filled it with more $$$ oil, and took it out for a ride. Two days later it did it again. Back up on stands (again). But I was NOT pulling that $#*&@% cover off this time and wasting more $$$ oil.

So this time I undone the adjuster and attempted to fix it from there. I loosened up the jam nuts on the adjuster and then pulled out the cross bolt from the linkage rod to disconnect the linkage. Then I began manipulating the shifting inside the gearbox from the front, turning and wiggling, pushing and pulling on the shift rod, until I could "feel" the pawl moving between the others. Knowing that 2nd and 3rd are in the middle plane, knowing the cross bolt HAS to be horizontal, I started shifting it manually from the front of the gearbox into and out of gear. When I was confident I had the gearbox in third, I went up and put the the shift lever in third gear position and went to reconnect the linkage and put the cross bolt back in.

First I adjusted the fore and aft. I adjusted the length of the rod to bring the lever so it just wouldnt touch the end of the 3rd gear slot, then shoved the lever forward into second. (note, I didnt want to move the lever out of the fore/aft 2-3 gear plane as the adjuster was still loose) Then I readjusted the length to get the lever equadistant fore and aft. Once I had that figured out, I securely tightened one jam nut on the adjuster, and started to find the lateral (side to side) adjustment.

Because the lever moves so very little within the gate slots, I dont believe the amount of movement there is very critical. But if you have the gearbox in 2nd, and you wiggle the shift shaft going into the gearbox while its disconnected, it will rotate quite a ways left or right. Common sense says it MUST be centered. So, in 2nd, and with the lever in second gear, but with the adjuster still loose with only one jam nut jammed, so that it will swivel left and right freely, I centered the shift shaft in the gearbox, and locked down the other jam nut semi snug. Then I carefully shifted the lever into each gear, noting how deep it went in the grooves, or how tight against the sides of the gate it was in any particular gear. IMO it should be in balance all around. If its too tight side to side against any slot, you could be misaligned within the gearbox. If it bottoms against any groove, the length is out of adjustment, and in extreme cases it may not be fully engaged into that particular gear which could potentially cause syncro damage or popping out of gear under high power loads.

Verell and many others over the years have tried to find the reason some cars have poor cold second gear shifting, while other cars do not. Verell has suggested shift adjustment as a possibilty, and I agree that that is one possibility. But another is that I feel the gearbox linkage was so tight and heavy when new, simular to trying to work the action on a brand new Winchester model 94 rifle, for example, that it may take these cars years to wear in well and shift nice. And with the linkage being that tight and stiff, it may make some paticular cars very sensitive to shift lever adjustments.

 

I posted something similar way back when we had ferrarilist! It will fall on deaf ears. But you are totally on target. This is how you adjust the shifters. I've had 3 ferraris and all mine shifted fine cold in second gear! By the way I have a Model 94 too. Good job Paul you are the hero of this thread. I hope people will listen to you.