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HELP!! 308 Overheating

Discussion in 'New York Tri-State' started by jhsalah, Apr 29, 2006.

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  1. jhsalah

    jhsalah Formula 3
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    Jawad
    #1 jhsalah, Apr 29, 2006
    Well, wouldn't you know it, the same day I get my pics of my new baby up here, I have a problem, and I may not be able to make the Hospital run... So, for anyone who has time to read this long message and maybe help me out (with thanks to Clyde for reading this twice) here's the deal:

    I took out my '84 QV tonight (Friday night) and, within 3 blocks of the garage, the water temp skyrocketed right to the high 250 mark, and the car was very obviously running really hot. I got pretty freaked out and drove it right back. I noticed the engine was smoking a bit when I parked and turned it off, and there was a strong smell of something burning (the guys in the garage thought there was a fire someplace from the smell!) The car wasn't on fire, of course, but this really worries me.

    Here's the relevant background: I bought the car a little over a week ago. During the PPI, when the guy drove it and was coming back into the garage, there was a line of coolant leaking on the floor. The former owner explained that the coolant was overflowing a bit because it had been overfilled. The guy doing the PPI took note but didn't seem worried about anything. When I picked up the car a couple days later (last Thursday), I drove around (often in traffic) for a couple hours and everything was basically fine. The car got hot but it was gradual, not sudden and immediate. When I parked it that day, though, I did notice the same "smoking" and some more coolant on the ground, down beneath the rear left (driver-side) wheel, where there was also a pretty strong jet of steam (I think) coming out. I called the former owner, he assured me it was just the coolant acting up again. I didn't drive the car again until today, and it clearly nearly overheated today (it took a couple of hours with the car off of course for it to cool down).

    Clearly, something is not right. From my limited knowledge, I would guess the two most obvious/likely problems are (a) a loss of coolant due to a hole or break in a hose or (b) a bad water pump. I'm sure there are other possible explanations, and I'm afraid it's something big. I JUST got the car and really really want to make the hospital run this Sunday, but unless I fix this problem today (i.e. Saturday), I can't drive the car!

    This is causing me a lot of stress, especially because I don't have the experience or ability to fix much myself. My first step tomorrow is going to be to take a look at the radiator and see if I need to add some antifreeze. I'm reviewing my manual now to try to learn about this, but frankly it's not that helpful. I've started reading threads on FChat about 308 overheating but most of the threads seem to be about long term, preventive solutions (new water pump, new fans, better thermo etc.) What I need right now is immediate help figuring out what is going on, first, and then how to get by long enough to take it someplace for long-term improvements.

    Any one of you FChatters in NYC (Manhattan/Brooklyn) on Saturday who might be able to give me some advice?

    Thanks all...
     
  2. ghost

    ghost F1 World Champ
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    Dec 10, 2003
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    #2 ghost, Apr 29, 2006
    Jawad, a concerning issue no doubt, and sorry to see it happened so quickly after you getting your new toy. While you might get some relevant answers here, the best place to post your query is in the Technical section of the board - some phenomenal do-it-yourselfers there who will either pinpoint the issue, or tell you where to get help.

    http://70.85.40.84/~ferrari/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=4
     
  3. Nsx Pilot

    Nsx Pilot Formula Junior

    Apr 19, 2006
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    #3 Nsx Pilot, Apr 29, 2006
    Im no expert but sounds like it could be a bad thermostat .
     
  4. tuttebenne

    tuttebenne F1 Rookie

    Mar 26, 2003
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    Andy
    #4 tuttebenne, Apr 29, 2006
    Jawad,

    Just a couple of comments fwtw; These "early cars" will run antifreeze out the overflow tube at the expansion tank if they are over filled. People (mechanics included) think the coolant level should be just below the neck in the expansion tank so they fill to there and the car just pisses out antifreeze until it is "happy" with the level of antifreeze the system can accomodate as it goes through the expansion and contraction that takes place as the car is run.

    Air in the system is a significant enemy with 308s. there should have been a bleeder system on the top of the thermostat housing but for some reason the Eyetalians put it on the upper right (as viewed from inside the car) of the radiator. its a half inch wide knob, made of soft metal that you unscrew to let air out of the system. The trick is to have the car on an incline, where the bleed screw is actually situated higher than it normally is. You can jack up the car to accomplish this or park it on a driveway or suitable incline. The screw should be hand tightened only so hopefully someone hasn't used any destrucive tools on it. Loosen the screw once on the incline and see if air comes out. You might bring a small can with you to catch what drains out of the screw. Let the engine run for a few and shut it off and try to bleed it again. Do this a few times until you essentially get more coolant than air when the screw is removed.

    If this doesn't cure the problem I would also suspect the thermostat. This can be changed by any reputable import car mechanic. PM me if you have any additional problems or questions. This is the second time in three weeks I've heard of a new owner having cooling problems within days of the inspection and drive home. The other situation took a thermostat and a bleed to cure it.
     
  5. ClydeM

    ClydeM F1 World Champ
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    #5 ClydeM, Apr 29, 2006
    Sorry to hear this happened.
    If it's been running ok, then it really sounds like a stuck thermostat.

    I haven't replaced my f-cars yet, but a simple test I've done (if your mechanically inclined) is pull the thermostat out (careful of the gasket as you may need to re-use it if you can't find a match) pop it in a pot and watch it on the kitchen stove while the water reaches boiling. If it opens up all the way up prior to boiling, life is good. if it only opens 1/4" or not at all, huh-oh, PepBoys is calling! Of course a thermometer in the water is better, but who has a graduated thermometer for just such occations? :) it that is the case, then a trip through the archives for a pepboys/autozone/napa replacement will get you on your way in short order.
    Can you run without a thermostat for a couple of days until you buy one? yep. It'll just take the car quite a while to reach normal operating temperature.


    Other items to check?
    Collased cooling hose - at 25 years the hoses are old & need replacing Pay special attention to hoses with bends and the larger hoses.
    Is there coolant leaking anywhere else besides the overflow tube? Specifically, near the waterpump. It may have taken early retirement

    air in the line? not likely....it would need a lot of air to all-of-a-sudden give you grief.

    Pinched hose? Not likely....especially if nobody has messed with the car in a while.
     
  6. vteqe

    vteqe Formula Junior

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    #6 vteqe, Apr 29, 2006
    Make sure your fans are coming on at 195F. As Andy notes trapped air. Also make sure your gauge reads properly. Just went through it on my 1984QV.
    Changed thermostat, fan thermostat, air bleeding and a flaky gauge. I also installed a pancake fan on the oil cooler. Checked the system with an infrared thermometer now running @195F.
    Goodluck.

    Sandy
     
  7. dwhite

    dwhite F1 Rookie

    May 30, 2003
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    #7 dwhite, Apr 29, 2006
    Check the cap on the expansion tank they are notorious for not keeping pressure. If the cap is not maintaining pressure it will overheat after a long drive and you will see fluid coming out from the overflow tube onto the ground right by the rear driverside tire. Also make sure the fans are kicking on. I bet it is nothing huge.
     
  8. Ciao Bello 348

    Ciao Bello 348 Formula 3

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    #8 Ciao Bello 348, Apr 29, 2006
    Im not a Ferrari tech, but I know a boat load about cars and their workings.

    Always start with the basics. Check for Antifreeze leaking. The burning smell was probably antifreeze. Smells like a pungent, nasty maple syrup on fire type smell.

    If you do not see any visible leaks (hoses, Radiator, etc) then I would go right to the Thermostat. Like I said, im no Ferrari tech, but on most cars, Thermostat is a pretty basic job. Third step would be to goto the water pump. Im sure a water pump job in a 308 is no laughing matter, so hopefully thats not it.

    I know this is somewhat off the subject, but it got me thinking and maybe others on the board can answer. Im not the type to pay for a PPI. I know enough about cars to do them myself. But here is an example. This gentleman PAID someone to check his Ferrari purchase. If he missed the waterpump or something major like this, what is the recourse?
     
  9. Ciao Bello 348

    Ciao Bello 348 Formula 3

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    #9 Ciao Bello 348, Apr 29, 2006
    Im not a Ferrari tech, but I know a boat load about cars and their workings.

    Always start with the basics. Check for Antifreeze leaking. The burning smell was probably antifreeze. Smells like a pungent, nasty maple syrup on fire type smell.

    If you do not see any visible leaks (hoses, Radiator, etc) then I would go right to the Thermostat. Like I said, im no Ferrari tech, but on most cars, Thermostat is a pretty basic job. Third step would be to goto the water pump. Im sure a water pump job in a 308 is no laughing matter, so hopefully thats not it.

    I know this is somewhat off the subject, but it got me thinking and maybe others on the board can answer. Im not the type to pay for a PPI. I know enough about cars to do them myself. But here is an example. This gentleman PAID someone to check his Ferrari purchase. If he missed the waterpump or something major like this, what is the recourse?
     
  10. jhsalah

    jhsalah Formula 3
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    #10 jhsalah, Apr 30, 2006
    Thank you to all of you who posted advice in repsonse to my message. I read all of your posts and talked to some other people as well (including John Turrell in MA and, later, Doug Pirrone in LI (NY), who, for the record, were extremely kind and helpful), and basically followed the instructions and, so far, think I fixed the immediate problem.

    First, I checked the coolant and discovered that it was essentially empty. Though the prior owner said he had over-filled it, I think it all blew out. So, I refilled the coolant (a bit too much but let some of it drain through the overflow), as a first step. I looked at the water pump belts and they seemed fine -- they were still on the pulleys and seemed to have sufficient tension and weren't visibly wobbly when the car was on. After this, I opened the thumb screw on the top right of the radiator to bleed any air out of the system (first I did it while the car was off, then I did it again with the car on and the heaters running). Each time, coolant came out immediately. This could mean there was no air in the system, or, quite the opposite, that there was some air trapped behind the coolant, I'm told. Anyway, I eventually got a good, steady stream of coolant out of the bleed, so figured I had probably purged any air that might have been in the system.

    Last, I checked to see whether the fans were coming on and I believe they are when the water temp gets to just under 195c. I noticed that one of the radiator fans wasn't running when I had the car on and the heater on, but I got two different opinions on this. One person told me that this was normal but that both fans should come on automatically (assuming the thermostat was working properly and there was no blockage preventing coolant from flowing to the radiator) when the thermostat triggered as the car got warm. Another person said the fan could be a problem (for which I should check the fuse first, then the relay then, lastly, the fan itself).

    After replenishing the coolant, checking the belts (and overflow hose) and bleeding the radiator, the car ran just fine in traffic and on the highway for hours. The water temp stayed just under 195c, at low or high RPM, heaters on or off. There was no more burning smell, and, aside from just a bit more coolant coming out of the overflow hose, no visible leaking.

    That said, I think I will follow all the valuable advice and do a few more things, like replace the cap with a new one (which can't hurt), check the fuses and the thermostat and having someone look at it the car more thoroughly.

    Again, thank you all. FChat is truly a great place to learn about these cars and you were all very kind to take time out to give me advice. So...barring any unpleasnant surprises, see you Sunday morning (in a few hours!) at the Hospital run.

    Drive safe and happy!

    J.
     
  11. tuttebenne

    tuttebenne F1 Rookie

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    #11 tuttebenne, Apr 30, 2006
    Glad to hear you got it going. It sounds like you had air in the system as well as low coolant. All it takes is a bubble of air in the thermostat housing and the thermostat will not open. Hope the run was fun ! Best wishes on the new car.
     
  12. Greg G

    Greg G F1 Rookie

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    #12 Greg G, Apr 30, 2006
    Nice meeting you today J... the car is bellissima!
     
  13. jhsalah

    jhsalah Formula 3
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    #13 jhsalah, May 2, 2006
    Nice meeting you too! Sunday was a lot of fun. Hope to regroup again soon.
     
  14. niptuck

    niptuck F1 Rookie

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    #14 niptuck, May 2, 2006
    beautiful car man...it was fun driving back to the city with ya.
     

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