HELP...Battery, voltage regulator or alternator? You make the call. | FerrariChat

HELP...Battery, voltage regulator or alternator? You make the call.

Discussion in '348/355' started by PA Charles Ferrari F355, Aug 31, 2010.

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  1. PA Charles Ferrari F355

    Apr 3, 2010
    74
    Chester County
    Full Name:
    Charles B.
    Need help in diagnosing my problem.

    Symptoms and facts:

    1. New battery installed 5 months ago when I purchased, 1,600 miles ago.

    2. My trickle charger currently is hooked up and shows that battery is at a full charge.

    3. Since purchasing my entry level F355 5 months ago I only had one other prior time that car had trouble starting. That day, a month ago, when starting vehicle to warm up as recommended waiting for girlfriend to get finish powdering her nose I decided to put air conditioning on while warming up. With increase delays in girlfriend waiting time to get ready I decided to put car back into garage and shut down vehicle to wait. Aprx. 15 minutes later I tried to start car and it cranked, but would not start. I hooked up trickle charger for about 3 hours and tried to start and it did.

    4. Recent problem a week ago.... took car out warmed up as normal, drove car to work 30 minutes away. During this 30 minute travel time I used a cell phone charger adapter in the cigarette lighter and parked car for about 1 hour without cell phone adapter in place.

    Car started up no problem. Drove it for 5 minutes up the road and parked it for about an hour. Went out to start it and it cranked, but would not start. Called tow truck, which is a Ferrari owners worst nightmare.

    Driver used a portable battery charger in the engine compartment and it allowed me to start it. Thinking all I need to do is get the car back home and hook back up to my trickle charger adapter that was installed in my engine compartment by previous owner I would be back in business. I was wrong as car not even with trickle charger refuses to start. It cranks, but refuses to kick over.

    5. Just purchased a Peak portable power 700 amp power system at the local Pep Boys for $100 to see if car would start when hooked up and it did right away, so I drove it around today with out shutting it down put it into the garage and turned it off and tried to start it with out using power pack right away and it did, but with a little hesitation. Tried again and no luck which concludes I have a problem.

    Question: Is it the battery, voltage regulator or alternator? What should I do to determine what it is based on my symptoms? Is the voltage regulator inside the alternator or a separate piece? If it is the alternator is it better to rebuild or buy new? Are there any after market better priced than using dealer parts?

    Lastly, is it better to just hit the kill battery switch in the hood area when I do not drive the car for a long period of time and when I do this can I still keep it hooked up to the trickle charger? trickle charger hooks up to the area where you can jump start the car in the engine compartment.

    Thanks in advance for ALL wisdom, assistance and guidance!
     
  2. Financialman

    Financialman Formula 3

    Sep 8, 2005
    1,841
    San Jose CA
    Full Name:
    Dan Carpenter
    If I had to guess I would say the battery is at fault. If the alternater was bad the car would have died during your drive I would think.

    Do you have a volt meter? What does it read while the car is running?
     
  3. Financialman

    Financialman Formula 3

    Sep 8, 2005
    1,841
    San Jose CA
    Full Name:
    Dan Carpenter
    Oh, and the voltage regulater is built into the alternater.
     
  4. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    13,462
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    Get to the battery, remove the cables, clean the terminals and the cable ends really good. Connect them back, try again and see if the problem goes away. If not, at least have your battery checked out by pepboys or something like that.
     
  5. Loser

    Loser Formula Junior

    Apr 11, 2008
    791
    Gilroy, CA
    Full Name:
    Tom
    +1 Sounds like a bad connection somewhere. Battery? Starter?
     
  6. Saint Bastage

    Saint Bastage F1 Rookie

    Jun 1, 2007
    2,548
    Connecticut
    Full Name:
    Lane
    buy a multimeter at harbor freight for $7, hook it up to any old cigarette lighter adapter from some broken POS in your garage, plug it into the cig lighter and read voltage. ~14 volts or greater and the alternator is fine meaning the battery isn't holding a charge. less than ~12 and your alternator is the issue.

    best part is you end up with a multimeter for $7.
     
  7. roadracer311

    roadracer311 Formula 3

    May 6, 2009
    2,398
    San Francisco
    Full Name:
    Paul
    #7 roadracer311, Aug 31, 2010
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2010
    The fact that the starter is turning the motor, but the car is still not starting makes me think it's not a battery problem or an alternator problem, but something else entirely. That is, unless the starter is turning very slowly during the times when it's failing to start.

    An easy test to see if your charging system is working, is to charge your battery completely, then remove the charger, start the car and measure the voltage across the battery (battery is hard to get to, but there are other places where you can measure the voltage while running, like the lighter socket, and I believe there is also power access under the engine lid on the right hand side). While the car is running, you should see 14 to 14.5 volts. If it's less than 13 volts while running, then I would agree that you have a charging problem.

    To test the battery, you'd need to load test it, which any car parts shop can do for you, but would require removing the battery. It's unlikely that such a new battery would fail.

    Good luck. Let us know how it goes.

    (oops! I see Lane beat me to it. ok, i'm redundant)
     
  8. PA Charles Ferrari F355

    Apr 3, 2010
    74
    Chester County
    Full Name:
    Charles B.
    Thanks for the great advice as my next step is to see what my readings are and go from there. If it is an alternator or a voltage regulator is it cost effective to rebuild it? Can it be rebuilt or do I need to purchase a new one from the Ferrari dealer or go after market?

    My non Ferrari dealer mechanic likes to order parts from Algar Ferrari and then he does the work. Is there a better place to get the parts?
     
  9. olive

    olive Karting

    Feb 2, 2006
    76
    Paris,France
    Full Name:
    olivier C
    I went through similar battery issues as you did last month.
    Battery was less than 6 months old but the 355 was hardly driven through the rough winter that hit France this year.
    As you did,I hooked up the charger a couple times for full cycle charge.
    At first,the car would start a couple times but with weakness and hesitation.
    When weather got better, before enjoying a nice drive, I took her to car wash.
    After she was all clean and shiny,car wash guys couldn't get her to start.
    Luckily,they're located right next to high end sportscar dealer who kindly removed right engine bay panel to access emergency battery connexions in order to jump start the car.
    I was explained that even though battery was fairly new and fully recharged a couple of times with charger, not driving the car for a long period of time would ruin it and therefore make it unable to hold the charge.
    I put a brand new battery in and everything was back to normal.
    Also,when I don't use the car now, I turn off the kill battery switch located in the front trunk.
    Everything works perfectly fine now and car always starts effortlessly.
    The important thing to do when you use the kill battery switch is to make sure when you turn it back on and start the car, to let it idle for 10minutes with all electrics like A/C,radio wipers off in order to reset all car parameters to factory settings.
    Then you're all good to go and hopefully you'll never encounter such issues again.
    Hope this helps,
    cheers from Paris,

    olivier
     
  10. blackforestauto

    blackforestauto Karting

    Jul 6, 2007
    185
    Cleveland, Ohio
    Full Name:
    Bob
    Most likely, it would be highly cost effective to have the existing alternator/regulator rebuilt versus buying a new or remanufactured one. The key is to find a top quality local rebuilder - your mechanic will hopefully know of one?

    One other point I haven't seen mentioned. Alternators often have a "partial failure" mode where they produce low voltage at idle speeds, then produce increased (normal level) voltage at higher speeds. It seems that your problems first began after the car idled for a while with a high electrical load...i.e. the battery may have been effectively discharging even though the alternator was putting out SOME (but not normal level) voltage. The point is that you need to check the voltage at various engine speeds and see if the alternator is "keeping up" at idle speed under load (headlights on, blower motor on, etc.).

    Also, if the alternator does appear to be performing properly at all speeds, the advice given above about thoroughly cleaning cable connections and tightening them at both ends is spot on, as is the suggestion to have the battery load tested, even though it is relatively new. A partially charged battery may spin the starter, but not have enough voltage to allow the ECM and fuel injection systems to operate properly, hence the no start problem that is remedied by providing an external power source. Batteries don't take kindly to abuse, and yours may have been damaged by the multiple discharge/fast recharge cycles it has been subjected to.

    Good luck - hope this helps.

    Bob
     
  11. Saint Bastage

    Saint Bastage F1 Rookie

    Jun 1, 2007
    2,548
    Connecticut
    Full Name:
    Lane
    replacement Ferrari alternator 1500 - 2000
    Total rebuild at any local alternator shop (partial DIY) 250 max
    get it working rebuild (DIY) 100 max

    the math is up to you.
     

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