HELP, can't get the heads off | FerrariChat

HELP, can't get the heads off

Discussion in '308/328' started by Racing-Baker, Feb 22, 2012.

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  1. Racing-Baker

    Racing-Baker Karting

    Jan 11, 2008
    216
    Beveren Leie
    Full Name:
    Enzo Duquesnoy
    Any tips on how to get the heads off?
    It's like they're glued on to the block :(
    This is the 4th 308engine that i do and the 3th engine wich gives me a hard time,
    but this is realy the first that does nog give an inch on all of my effords...
    Not the slightest bit...


    Thanks,
    Enzo
     
  2. Matto

    Matto Formula 3

    Dec 26, 2011
    2,085
    Mooresville, NC USA
    Full Name:
    Matthew
    #2 Matto, Feb 22, 2012
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2012
  3. mwr4440

    mwr4440 Five Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 8, 2007
    55,828
    Bavaria, The 'Other' Germany
    Full Name:
    Mark W.R.
    Use SEARCH.

    A couple of guys have fabbed head pullers. Those threads may help.
     
  4. MNExotics

    MNExotics F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    Dec 13, 2010
    2,631
    Good Thunder
    Full Name:
    Ben Gruenzner
    When I had done a stuck head I used a non conventional approach. With the engine removed and the nuts off I. Used pb blaster to soak the studs. From there I made a log manifold with four adapters from a leak down tester though the spark plug holes and used shop air @150 psi. Once the head lift a bit the air leaks out but oil on the studs will allow easy removal.
     
  5. tuttebenne

    tuttebenne F1 Rookie

    Mar 26, 2003
    3,189
    Bay Shore, NY
    Full Name:
    Andy
    If its a two valve there is tons of info on plates people have made. If its a four valve, you have to fabricate /obtain a hydraulic tool that fits in the space between the head stud and the casting under the camshaft. By exerting controlled and not excessive hydraulic pressure on the head stud and against the casting, the head will move away from the block. Ideally you use two of these simultaneously; one at the bellhousing side of the head and the other on the timing side, so you exert even pressure.
     
    MondialqvIndia likes this.
  6. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 6, 2002
    79,143
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    Keep soaking the studs Racing Baker...PB Blaster or Kroil.......time will do it hopefully...


    2V or 4V???
     
  7. godabitibi

    godabitibi F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 11, 2012
    6,252
    Papineauville, Quebec
    Full Name:
    Claude Laforest
    #7 godabitibi, Feb 22, 2012
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2012
    I read a horror story about a guy who had been adding penetrating oil for 10 years. He had to cut the head in 5 pieces to get it off the block even after all those years of oil and patience. My engine is out at the moment for head removal. I hope it will be not too bad.
     
  8. Trainman

    Trainman Rookie

    Oct 13, 2011
    47
    Colorado
    Full Name:
    Gene
    Ha! That was my horror story...patience ran out.

    Shop air works to break the remaining seal, and might be good for a millimeter of movement. I did that, and just wound up with lots of air blowing out around the head gasket. This might work if the head was stuck to the block, but in these engines, the head is usually stuck to the head studs.

    10 years of "penetrating" oil never penetrated. The corroded studs remained dry after many cans of different products. (Including all mentioned) Even when the head was cut into sections, the two corroded studs in each section fought removal for 2" up the studs.

    Use search to find the different methods others have used to yank their 4v heads. Beg, borrow or steal the contraptions they have put together to do the task.
     
  9. tuttebenne

    tuttebenne F1 Rookie

    Mar 26, 2003
    3,189
    Bay Shore, NY
    Full Name:
    Andy
    The bore the head studs run through is very tight. Over time, corrosion sets in and builds up around the stud. This is what you are fighting when removing a head. If the engine is in the car, the angle the heads/studs are at is working against you too. Penetrating oil will help but you need to apply it by the quart not with little five - ten second blasts from a spray can.
     
  10. Racing-Baker

    Racing-Baker Karting

    Jan 11, 2008
    216
    Beveren Leie
    Full Name:
    Enzo Duquesnoy
    I asked a guy i know who is into racing cars today and now the engine is with him.
    He's gone put the engine in a (ultra sonic?)bath for 2 days and he tells me they will fall off. He's no stranger with 308 engines :) Let's hope for the best!!
     
  11. MondialqvIndia

    Nov 8, 2017
    4
    Full Name:
    Hemenchoksey
    Any pictures that you can share?
     
  12. Mike Florio

    Mike Florio Formula Junior

    Jun 19, 2003
    592
    NW Rural Nevada
    Full Name:
    Mike Florio
    sltillim likes this.
  13. waymar

    waymar Formula 3

    Sep 2, 2008
    1,321
    Northeast, PA - USA
    Full Name:
    Wayne Martin
    Rope trick worked twice for me. 1-4 & 5-8 cylinders.
     
  14. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    12,661
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    How do you feed the rope into the cylinder?
     
  15. waymar

    waymar Formula 3

    Sep 2, 2008
    1,321
    Northeast, PA - USA
    Full Name:
    Wayne Martin
    Remove the spark plug. Insert the rope! I used hemp type rope. Soaking the studs first of course.
     
  16. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    12,661
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    Insert the rope... with a screw driver, a thin rod, a bent coat hanger?
     
  17. waymar

    waymar Formula 3

    Sep 2, 2008
    1,321
    Northeast, PA - USA
    Full Name:
    Wayne Martin
    I kept twisting it to keep the shape tight. Yes some help from thin screw driver helps. Takes a little patience. But works.
     
  18. absostone

    absostone F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 28, 2008
    9,178
  19. Mike Florio

    Mike Florio Formula Junior

    Jun 19, 2003
    592
    NW Rural Nevada
    Full Name:
    Mike Florio
    I used double braided nylon line, like used on a sailboat for running rigging. Half inch. Do two cylinders at a time to equalize the load. When you feed it in it will tend to settle around the inner perimeter of the bore (outer perimeter of the piston) , that will put the force on the sides of the piston, where it is the strongest.. Get a long breaker bar with a 24mm 6-point socket on the front crankshaft nut. I like this method because there's no chance of stripping any of the threaded holes in the top of the head or bending a head stud like when using a pulling block. Others may disagree.
     
  20. FrannyB

    FrannyB Formula Junior

    May 20, 2014
    293
    Arvada, CO
    We went through all this with our car and, alas... Finally had to cut the head into a few sections and it STILL took hours and hours to get the bits off. This isn't to be a Debbie downer at all, just I was worried about actually pulling a stud or two out of the block. It was my call and the shop we used was excellent and tried every trick in the book! After a couple months, I called it. We then sourced a new Euro head for $$$$. In the end it was two really bad studs on one end. They had swelled quite a bit and were dry even will all the product dumped on them over time.

    Maybe I called it too soon, but my biggest fear was pulling a stud. I guess you could tap in an insert and replace the pulled stud, but I think you'd have to crack the case at that point... So, what is the point at which you will break something else (stud, connecting rod, wrist pin, warp/bend the head, etc.)? I really struggled with that. In the end it all worked out and the car got a complete top end and is running great, but what a fuss... Just wondering what all your feelings about where that line in the sand really is...

    Franny
     
  21. Pero

    Pero Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 22, 2011
    820
    Sweden
    Full Name:
    Peter R
    When trying to remove the heads they did not move. Supported the cylinder heads with a 2x4 piece of wood just enough to make the engine rest on the wood and not the engine mounts. A couple of millimeters, not more. Left the Image Unavailable, Please Login engine hanging on the wood, went by every morning, hit it with a rubber mallet a couple of times and sprayed some wd40 or similar. Repeated it a couple of days until one morning they had come loose. Hit them with the mallet so the gap closed again, and then opened the gap again. Doing that a couple of times and the cylinder heads came loose.
    /Peter
     
  22. Nuvolari

    Nuvolari F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Sep 3, 2002
    6,370
    Toronto / SoCal
    Full Name:
    Rob C.
    Rather than struggle like crazy I took the time to make a puller that attaches to the cam cover studs and pushes on the tops of the head studs via a series of long bolts. It took about an hour to make the template and then took it to a laser cutter who made it for me out of 3/8" plate steel. I then welded on the nuts for the pulling bolts and had the perfect solution without any sweat.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
    sltillim and Pero like this.
  23. dflett

    dflett Formula 3

    Jun 24, 2005
    1,603
    NY
    Full Name:
    David
    That looks the business!
     
  24. guygowrie

    guygowrie Formula 3

    Sep 19, 2011
    1,400
    ct
    Full Name:
    guy s
    yep,me too!
     
  25. tf308

    tf308 Formula 3

    Dec 14, 2003
    1,168
    Virginia Beach
    Full Name:
    Tim
    Patience! Patience!

    I put Kroil on my studs for weeks and it finally worked.

    Patience! I can't say it enough.

    The aluminum and steel oxidize and this powder like materials leaves no room.

    I remember the Kroil finally sleeping through and movement slowly improved


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
     

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