Help deciding about cam drive bearings | FerrariChat

Help deciding about cam drive bearings

Discussion in '308/328' started by mixedgas, Feb 4, 2024.

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  1. mixedgas

    mixedgas Formula Junior
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    Apr 23, 2019
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    Ramona, CA
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    Mike
    Good morning, sorry for all the posts recently but the help is greatly appreciated!

    I'm now trying to decide whether or not to change the outer cam drive bearings and seals on my 85 308. These are the larger (44mm) bearings which are quite expensive.

    The bearings and seals were changed about 500 miles ago, but in the year 2000... been sitting since at least 2010.

    Same question about the front main seal - was new but sitting for a while.

    There are no signs of leaks and there is zero play in the cam drive gears.

    Not trying to be cheap, but if I can avoid spending another 500 bucks (bearings, ring nut tool, seals, etc) that is great. I'm also a bit paranoid after reading horror stories about woodruff keys, seal install depths etc.

    My current mindset is to leave these alone and run the car to see if any leaks / noises then deal with it later.

    Thanks for any opinions!
    -Mike


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  2. LB427SC

    LB427SC Karting

    Aug 5, 2021
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    Lloyd Barnes
    500 mile old bearings seems a bit unnecessary?
    I had to do mine as they were literally wobbling around. You could grab hold and move them by hand. Mine had about 34,000 miles on them though.

    If you do them they are not that bad to do. You need a slide hammer and a bit of ingenuity to create a half round that will engage into the race.
     
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  3. Sergio Tavares

    Sergio Tavares Formula 3

    Nov 15, 2018
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    i would caution about the low mileage bearing over 24 years dry can cause pitting then rust and contaminated oil as the grind compound.'
    You really should look before deciding no as it can cause damage throughout

    On a very low mileage Dino clutch job the top drop gear bearing had rusted then pitted THEN the lower bearing shows signs of light haze at race. I suppest the rusted dust moved from one bearing pittting to provide the grinding on other bearing.
    Both bearings had to be replaced. Any sign of degrade and you will know it will only fail faster

    Your risk is not that one of the 500 mile bearings will wear fast BUT that it will do much more damage to others when it does.
    Rust contaminates lubricants for a rouge. Fight this with early gear oil changes - not for lubrication but for washing contaminations out
     
  4. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
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    Splash lubrication of ball bearings is vastly different from sealed bearings in the front cover.
    I honestly wouldn't stress it, no leaks, no play. Very likely just fine.

    To doubley make sure, you'd have to split the block and pull the cover to check spin, etc... doesn't seem worth it.

    Get it running, listen with a stethoscope and if it's crunchy, look at replacement. Otherwise probably just fine.
     
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  5. kcabpilot

    kcabpilot Formula 3

    Apr 17, 2014
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    If those bearings have corrosion from the time the car sat idle they would be the least of your worries because it would mean you most likely have internal corrosion throughout the entire engine. I replaced mine at 50k because I have an '83 with the smaller bearings and because I have a friend who had one fail after a belt service. So I figured Ferrari upped the size of those bearings for a reason. But I think that in general we tend to go overboard on maintenance with these cars and I have certainly been guilty of it myself in the past.
     
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  6. mixedgas

    mixedgas Formula Junior
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    Apr 23, 2019
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    Mike
    Thank you all. I've used an endoscope and looked inside each cylinder, the water pump passage, in the head, into the block and all looks fine internally - I'm not too worried about corrosion / rust - what you see really is just surface rust on the steel drive gears - perhaps I'll remove and clean/replace those. Thanks again!
     
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  7. mixedgas

    mixedgas Formula Junior
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    Mike
  8. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
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    Could be, could also be oil and dirt from the cam seals above finding it's way down as well.
     
  9. kcabpilot

    kcabpilot Formula 3

    Apr 17, 2014
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    Well you've gotten this far, are you willing to go the rest of the way? Because it's pretty brutal, this blind extraction. You'll need another tool and you're only going to replace the outers, it's a tandem bearing and to replace the inners you'd have to remove the timing cover. If you decide to proceed make sure you don't lose that shim that goes between the bearings. As far as that "grease" goes, not sure what that is but it seems unlikely that it came from the bearings in my opinion. Of course I could be wrong so does that help?
     
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  10. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
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    That shim is actually a big ol Belview washer, giant spring washer, to accommodate the thrust of the gears and thermal expansion. Critical piece that one.
     
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  11. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    Seems like at least one is missing from every car I take apart these days.
    Makes you wonder who's working on them.
     
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  12. Sergio Tavares

    Sergio Tavares Formula 3

    Nov 15, 2018
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    Exactly, clean off gently and get a good view.
    I can nnot see the seal face or edge well
     
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  13. mixedgas

    mixedgas Formula Junior
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    Apr 23, 2019
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    Thanks all, I left it 'as discovered' so you got a sense of condition but I note the cam seals above were leaking. I'll get it cleaned up. I have a blind bearing puller tool, just not super excited to pull the outer bearings and seal if they are serviceable. Then again, I'm here, have the tool, and don't really want to get in here again. The piece that gives me the greatest concern is replacing the seals - seems that is easy to botch.

    I'll clean and post some pictures.

    Thanks again,
    Mike
     

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