Having some F1 issues on my 430 - anyone out there have any ideas? When I started the car the other day I got the red F1 warning on the dash. This had only happened to me once before. After shutting down and re-starting it was gone and the car drove fine for most of the day with multiple starts with no issues. Heading home late afternoon and while driving along in 6th gear at about 55 mph, the warning light came back on. Car would downshift but then not upshift past 2nd gear. Shut down and restarted several times but warning light won't clear. Checked F1 fluid and level is normal. Any ideas? I plan to bring it into the dealer but its a fairly long drive and I wouldn't attempt to drive it unless I can get the fault to clear. A little more info - it was over 100 degrees here in Texas on the day that I had the issue described above - no idea if that could be a factor. Thanks for any help that can be offered.
I would try replacing the pump before moving on to any more expensive solutions. It could be just the relay but I doubt it. When was the F1 fluid last changed? Unless it is changed religiously, the actuator will incur damage over time.
I would try to bleed the f1 system on all 3 bleeders with the hot weather you got you could of got a bad air lock in the F1 system and the pump is not priming proper and without a snanner to check codes , turn off battery cutoff for a hour and then restart and see what happans it won,t cost you much before going to dealer
Which light is on? I would not replace anything yet.. More testing needed. Do not just throw parts at it!! Does the pump prime when you open the door? How long since fluid change? Could be loose screws in actuator, bad accumulator, e diff solenoid... Get with someone they has an SD2 or 3 and find out.
Could also be time for a new clutch. How many miles since your last clutch or since your last clutch reading. I hope its not. Im hoping for your sake its the f1 pump. A lot easier to replace. Keep us posted
is it on all the time now? I had an issue when I first got the car where it comes on and off, ends up being a sensor 900$ fix.
Start with your battery. Weird things happen when you battery is starting to fail. This just happened to a friend of mine. remove your rear diffuser and take a look at the actuator. If there are any leaks, that could be your culprit. Too many things can cause the F1 system to start shifting strangely. You have to start with the basics first. Throwing parts at it is not your best option. A simple connection to an SD2/3 or Leonardo will usually tell you what's wrong.
Thanks for the ideas - I'll try the suggested items above. Here is more information per the missing details. F1 fluid was changed about a year (maybe 800 miles) ago during last annual service at Boardwalk Ferrari. Clutch readout was 35% worn then. Car has 18k miles on it with the original clutch. Battery is new about a year ago and I keep it on the tender religiously. The pump primes when you open the door. I have not noticed a change in the time that the pump runs when it primes. I don't know if the light will stay on all the time now as I have been traveling since the day that this happened but I couldn't get it to turn off when re-starting on that day. It is the weird looking red light on the lower portion of the speedometer that comes on and when it does the car won't shift beyond 2nd gear. I actually had to look up what the light meant - how anyone would guess it was indicating an F1 problem is beyond me. At first I thought it was an open trunk or engine cover. I'm hopeful that it just needs bleeding or maybe a pump.
I would actually throw a new pump at it. There is no harm in buying an extra pump: you WILL eventually need it. Order the Alfa Romeo Selespeed equivalent though. Much cheaper.
+1. How long does the F1 electric motor prime when you open the door? Should be about 3 seconds. When was the last time you changed the F1 fluid and had the system bled? Go to an indy who has an SD3 or Leonardo to help you diagnose this issue.
+1 with Taz on the F1 pump, later models are the "tuna can" types. Additionally, I don't share the same views on it being the pump itself. When the F1 pump goes it will usually stay stuck in the gear it's in. If it's slowly failing, it will run a bit until it gets hot, build resistance, then blow the F1 fuse. If it can slightly build pressure but not enough it sometimes kicks it into neutral if it can, similar to when the accumulator is shot. This car is being placed into fail safe mode (not allowing it to shift out of second) only allowing it to down shift. This wouldn't be happening with a failed F1 pump. I would suggest you get it scanned. It could be a number to things to be honest. If the fluid was flushed less than 800 miles, and the level light didn't come on I would discount the fluid itself. I mean you could postulate everything from F1 position sensor, to gear box speed sensor, to F1 engagement/selection potentiometers that when they have problems they put the car into limp mode or fail safe mode, that's just to name a few. None of that is going to be advantageous mentally for you when what I think you need is a scan tool, which has also been suggested above. Sorry, I don't post here much. I'm a moderator on Maserati Life, and have my own business, craig-waterman.com is also my website. It's a weird day when I actually can come to a different site. You can look through the F1 system info on my website to give you a better idea of how the actuators/pumps interface with the system (I've recently started with rebuilding F1 actuators as well). I've yet to talk about the accumulators on the site, and a few other details, but I have better access to the F430's and 360's than I even do with Maseratis with my scan tool. The F1 systems are very similar as well. Of course this might not be what you want to hear, but I find with most of my clients they like me to be knowledgeable and direct instead of guessing, and in this instance I don't see any indicative marks you can figure it out unless you scan it. Of course there are instances when you can diagnose a failed accumulator, or F1 pump outside of a scan tool, just not that I see in this instance.
Craig, that is the best technical breakdown of the actuator I've seen, thanks for sharing what lies inside John.
No worries. I'm glad to do it. I've had many clients over a couple of years request I do a web site. A couple months ago, I decided that though forums are really great for dialog, trying to put all of that information in one thread, is extremely difficult, not to mention soon forgotten after the effort. So I started the website, I will be adding to it all the time, well, when I have time. I work on many things like diesels, and equipment so not always easy to find time. My old man was a Master Tractor Trailer Mechanic, still works in the field to this day, so I grew up doing this type of stuff. I will try to add a post about Hydraulic accumulators as well soon. That should help people as well.
Even if it isn't a 2005 car, can't you use an old Selespeed pump with a different relay? It seems to work fine the other way around. The only difference will be that you won't get the advantage of the higher torque motor. People open the pumps and replace the motors all the time so a workaround shouldn't be too hard. I hate paying Ferrari prices for parts. I'd rather gut the car, swap the ECU, get rid of the actuator and convert it to a fully manual car. It can be done.
Joseph- No, you do not want to do that. The old pump for the 360 was marginal for the F430 because of the addition of the E-Diff, which the F1 pump also powers. So why go back to an underpowered pump? That is why Ferrari upgraded the F430 and 599 pumps. Likely the later 612s, too.
Saw the same conditions on a 430 about two years ago. Turned out to be loose bleed screws on the actuator. The car shifted fine when cold, but as the car and fluid heated up, these shifting issues started to appear. I seem to recall a thread about loose bleed screws on the actuator from the factory.
I agree it's possible about the bleed screws but again, you'd be guessing without running system diagnostics with a scan tool. I do know that these cars do have bleed screw issues. Cannot verify on-line if that's the issue though. +1 with Taz about the pump again. If there is any confusion about where those bleed screws are looking at this post, and about 11 pics down from the top you will see the three screws heads on the side of the actuator: http://craig-waterman.com/?cat=41
WOW i wish i could put up my website for free without paying $1,000.00 how did you get away with that Craig, i try helping member as best as i can also Main - Pantuso
That's a cool read on the actuator... takes it a few steps further than Aldos Voice. Thanks for taking the time to take pics and write it up
Awesome! Any thoughts about slow engagement of the clutch from 1st to 2nd going up from a stop? I did a battery reset and still feel it, 4 to 6K rpm, Sport, ASR off. No real change with other settings. Higher gears are fine. No warning lights and Challenge Stradale TCU installed, tuned and tested at dealer. No comments about condition. I thought practice and TCU would help but it's still there. Is it the TCU just being careful with nanny controls? Or do I need more throttle and rpm? Car only has 9200 miles on it. Clutch wear should be low and I had salesman say it was and readout from SD during install. BUt what does ***worn*** really mean how much is gone or how much is left? I got the impression it was 15% worn with 85% left. I think it's 75 to 80% now.
Aldous Voice is one of my top collaborators when it comes to F1 cars. I appreciate the comparison, but know many years ago when I started out researching how to set up the PIS in cars without the autocalibrated PIS, he was the one who taught me, ...with absolute precision I might add. To this day, I've not had one Ferrari/Maserati tech who could better tell me how to set up the most aggressive setting for a kiss point without over doing it so it gets stuck in neutral between gear shifts after it's heat soaked. We can get into the factory recommended settings and why it's not the best way to set up one of these type of cars, but that would be a long digression. Additionally, when it comes to taking into account the health of these F1/E gear actuators by taking the engagement/selection values and putting them down for a gear change calculation grid, he also with precison taught me that, something that many Techs have no idea about. My mentality is a bit different when it comes to working on cars which I've done most of my life. Much like any profession you go to college for, the student doesn't learn all he knows without a foundation. No, much rather there are Professors, the student should be able to readily point to that taught him foundational truths that helped him gain the knowledge, wisdom, and experience he obtained. I'm sure, there is a point that that student out grows his Professor. But, I feel it would be dishonest for him to pretend he did this in a void, or on his own. So in this regard, I am talking about Voicey here. We do email from time to time even to this day. He's sharp as a razor, please know that for sure. Additionally, I really hope I didn't step on anyone's toes by drawing reference to my website. If I did it was unintentional. If you notice I'm not selling anything there, and you don't have to pay to see what's available. It's just very difficult to post so much information in one thread like that. In either case, if it was offensive I can remove the link.
