help, how does this come apart? | Page 2 | FerrariChat

help, how does this come apart?

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Sledge4.2, Sep 20, 2014.

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  1. 335s

    335s Formula Junior

    Jan 17, 2007
    870
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    T. Monma
    do you have a tig or mig?
    since bearing is being replaced, the old race is junk-right?
    Get some 1/4 or 3/8" bar stock, cut a diameter piece which will fir 1/2 way into race, grind a nice radius at each end so there is maximum surface purchase(contact with face of race), then tig/mig in in place, then run a bead around the circumference of race at this halfway up level, and the race will "lift" out if it doesn't fall out on the ground.
    In rare instances, it might require a tap from the other side with a brass drift on this strap welded across the diameter
    if this doesn't do it, then the directions were not followed correctly.
    this has worked 100% of the time for the last 35 years...
     
  2. Sledge4.2

    Sledge4.2 F1 Rookie

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    #27 Sledge4.2, Sep 22, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    There is a circular hole in the side of the carrier....is that what the hole is for?
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  3. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    If it is on top it is for oil to lube the bearing. If it is on the bottom it would be to drain oil from behind the seal.
     
  4. Sledge4.2

    Sledge4.2 F1 Rookie

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    Its on the side, assume for oiling.
     
  5. Sledge4.2

    Sledge4.2 F1 Rookie

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    #30 Sledge4.2, Sep 22, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    That right side isn't budging at all.

    The carrier has six bolts to the differential.

    There are two other holes, as marked, threaded, which have no female on the other side, meaning if you put a bolt in the hole it would bear on the differential case.

    I am assuming those or for pulling the hub out and off the shaft?

    Obviously in even, gradual turns....
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  6. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
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    it looks as though there is a threaded ring that pre-loads the bearing. It also looks as though it is staked to prevent it from unthreading. the 4 holes may be for a special tool as well. Per the parts dwg above there is also a 'C' clip behind that assy.
     
  7. 166&456

    166&456 Formula 3

    Jul 13, 2010
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    Amsterdam
    Please note that the differential is now being held up by this side. If you pull this side out the diff will be loose in the casing. It is likely that the weight load of the diff is preventing the bearing carrier from sliding out.
     
  8. Sledge4.2

    Sledge4.2 F1 Rookie

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    I will reinstall the other side before pulling the right side, thank you.

    I see in the picture where the threaded ring that pre-loads the bearing is spoiled on to the carrier. My question is, to get the carrier out do I need back out the threaded ring first, or pull the carrier/threaded ring as a unit? I have removed the C clip already.

    Thank you guys for all the help.

    Geno
     
  9. Mark 328

    Mark 328 Formula Junior

    Nov 6, 2003
    510
    Orange, Ca
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    Mark Foley
    To clarify my earlier post, the removal slots for the bearing slots are ground in the housing to permit a drift punch to be used o knock the bearings-out. The bigger the punch and the harder the tap will reduce the damage to the bearing. The hammer blow needs to be enough to break the bearing free else the bearing will absorb the energy from the blow and could chip.
    Attached is a link to a pictorial example of grinding the slots. (Picture #6 shows the slots)

    https://www.mazdatrix.com/faq/frontbrg.htm
     
  10. 166&456

    166&456 Formula 3

    Jul 13, 2010
    1,723
    Amsterdam
    Oh and to answer your question, yes you can probably use those threaded holes to get the carrier out.
    No offense, but considering that this seems to be your first attempt at bearing replacement/dismantling, you may want to look up a machine shop in the phone book and call them if it's ok to step by and ask for advice. They may have a press and right sized tools, or know someone who does. Pay close attention whether they know what they are talking about, ask what they would do and then go away to think about it if you have even the smallest doubt.

    And a TIP: do NOT leave such small rare parts behind at any machine shop, not even when they say they will do it asap. You need to be there, have them take it apart and take the pieces away with you, and come back later with new seal etc if needed for re-assembly.
    I learned this the hard way when some rare, seemingly scrap parts disappeared which took me a lot of effort and time to find replacements for.
     
  11. Sledge4.2

    Sledge4.2 F1 Rookie

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    No offense taken, and thank you for the advice.
     
  12. Jdubbya

    Jdubbya The $10 Trillion Man
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    So you can't see the hole on the backside for those two? If so I'd tend to think they might be alignment pins. Was there anything in those two extra holes on the other side. I couldn't tell from the pics but in the parts diagram it looks like both flanges have the same holes.

    Also since the inner race stayed on the other shaft I would think this side would be just as tight. I'd try taking the ring off the front of this one but it looks like you'll have to undo the punch marks holding it to the case to get it to spin.
     
  13. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
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    I don't think he has to go as far as grinding or cutting into the carrier to remove the bearing. The polymide cage should be easy enough to remove and then all the roller bearings will drop out leaving behind the outer race. There are blind collet style removal tools for such bearings as well. More then likely it needs a jig to remove this bearing. Also it's not always a good idea to hit or use pointed tools on bearing races, they usually are tool-steel and that stuff shatters like glass while ejecting small bits at high velocity that likes to cut into flesh.

    In the link you provided I can see the problem of getting that race out, so either it was never meant to be replaced or heating the aluminum housing and having the race set up in expanding jaws while pulling the housing off might work. a real PITA I'm sure.
     
  14. finnerty

    finnerty F1 World Champ

    May 18, 2004
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    #39 finnerty, Sep 24, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Yes, they appear to be "jack screw" holes.... to be used for pushing the assembly off the shaft.

    Yes, this appears to be a threaded lock collar / bearing retainer (item #25 -- in the parts diagram). It is mechanically staked (punch swaged) into 4 notches, at 90 degrees apart, in the flange housing. If you bend back the swages, you should be able to unscrew this collar and remove the bearing assembly behind it --- you will have to improvise a tool to engage the 4 holes (circled in the photo) in order to do so.

    Also, this part is then likely a consumable --- as it will have to be swaged again during reassembly, and unless the new set locations are far enough apart from the old ones, it cannot be re-used. So, you may want to locate and price a new one of those before committing.
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  15. Sledge4.2

    Sledge4.2 F1 Rookie

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    I took the left side down to John Heim at San Francisco Motorsports and left it to a pro.

    he did remove the plastic bearing carrier and the roller bearings, and there was a lip on the bearing that made pressing it out easy.

    now on to the other side.
     
  16. Sledge4.2

    Sledge4.2 F1 Rookie

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    #41 Sledge4.2, Oct 9, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Should the entire assembly come off the shaft if I use the jack screws? I removed the circlip and washer (part 23 and 24), tried the jack screws, but it doesnt want to budge. I didnt apply too much force, but it certainly didn't slide off.

    does the threaded collar / bearing retainer (part #25) need to come out before the assembly 21 slides out?
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  17. finnerty

    finnerty F1 World Champ

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    I don't think it will accomplish anything to remove the bearing retainer at this stage.

    I believe the whole assembly should prise off with the jack screws --- but, without being able to see it first hand, I am reluctant to say do that. I am certain that the inner race of the bearing will require considerable force to push it off the shaft...... so, very carefully..... you may want to apply more torque on the jack screws you have placed. Put small pieces of steel under the tips of the screws to protect the casting (better yet, I like to use pennies --- copper is hard enough yet forgiving). Worst case scenario is you damage the bearing in this process, but if you intend to replace it anyway, nothing to lose --- and, it should accomplish disassembly.
     
  18. Sledge4.2

    Sledge4.2 F1 Rookie

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    Thank you, much appeciated

    Assuming I get it off, which will require considerable force, how the f would I press it back on?
     
  19. Sledge4.2

    Sledge4.2 F1 Rookie

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    #44 Sledge4.2, Oct 11, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I put pennies under the jack screws and had at it.

    Just about when I was ready to give up it broke free. Pennies are ruined.

    it still required some force, but not nearly as much to get the bearing to move on the shaft once i broke it free.

    rather than pull it all the way off, i backed it off enough to clean the surface, and loop the O ring around the assembly and tuck it into the grove. I was worried if i pulled it off all the way there is no way to press it back on with the engine in the car.

    bearing seems to spin freely, I hope i didn't waste it in the process, but time will tell.

    Thanks for the help guys, very much appreciated,

    Geno
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  20. finnerty

    finnerty F1 World Champ

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    Great --- glad it worked for you ! ..... and it only cost you $0.02 !

    Smart not to pull it all the way off ---- if you line up and start all (5) of the flange screws, you should be able to pattern torque them down evenly a little at a time to press the assembly back on (but, I am sure you figured that out already) :)
     
  21. Sledge4.2

    Sledge4.2 F1 Rookie

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    Yes, but I have another problem.

    I pressed it back on slowly with the flange screws, and it went back on nicely, and is fully seated....but the shaft on part 20 is not sticking out enough to put the circlip back on, its off about the thickness of the washer behind it....
     
  22. finnerty

    finnerty F1 World Champ

    May 18, 2004
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    That is likely a result of the inherent thrust play in the bearing and whatever gear / spline stack exists in the entire system.

    You will have to find a suitable piece of tubing, large socket, etc. to line up on the face of the bearing's inner race and use it tap the race on a bit further until the groove (for the c-clip) protrudes enough to get the clip installed. Be careful not to "overdrive" it --- tap it down a tad bit at a time, and stop just as soon the clip is able to be fitted.
     
  23. Sledge4.2

    Sledge4.2 F1 Rookie

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    Got it, thank you

    Will report back
     
  24. finnerty

    finnerty F1 World Champ

    May 18, 2004
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    Geno ---

    How is it going ? Did you get it all put back together ?
     
  25. Sledge4.2

    Sledge4.2 F1 Rookie

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    Thanks for checking in, I couldn't get on the bearing face due to tight conditions, so I am making an in-situ press, stay tuned for more details.
     

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