Went to see this car today. The pictures along with a couple short videos are available here:...
Went to see this car today. The pictures along with a couple short videos are available here: http://s249.photobucket.com/albums/gg225/rebirthauto/1981%20400i/ The car was low on fuel and battery. The car did not smoke at all on startup. Idling , the engine ran smoothly, althought there was a sporatic ticking from around the alternator, and a small exhaust noise from where the headers join the pipes. From the little driving I have done, the car seemed reluctant to rev up, the clutch felt dumpy, and the ride was quite bouncy. On the superficial side the car was "resprayed" in the driver door bottom, bubbling was present at the bottom of front wheel arch, and there was a variety of dings typical of a car of this vintage, but it has more wear than I would have expected in the nose. At the bottom of the passenger door handle there is a series of indents... can't figure this one out. The interior is what it is. Please try to help me value this car, but please refrain from identifying the car directly, as civilians are involved here.
A pretty nice, clean 5-speed car sold recently by Forza went for $27k (in light blue with a tan interior - which is a more desirable color combo than white/black). My guess it that it would cost at least $10k, probobly much, much more, to bring it up to the condition of the Forza car. As to what it's worth, I don't know but I would guess that it will sell to someone who doesn't know what they are doing for more than it is worth. Regards, Art S.
Ferrari clone on Pinto frame V8 - $1820 Reply to: [email protected] Date: 2008-01-23, 10:32PM PST Ferrari 512BB Kit car built on a Ford Pinto Frame with a V8 egine. Needs minor work to finish. Has been tagged ad registered in the not too distant past. * This item has been posted by-owner. * it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
Whew! Where to start? This one is a long way from a nice one but I'm going to guess you already know that. Are you looking at it for yourself, or to resell? If its for yourself then you should pass; that car could eat your lunch in no time. If you're buying it to resell thats a whole other deal.
I don't even know these cars but I would RUN not walk away from that one! If you were GIVEN the car it would cost more than its market value to make it nice and that is without even worrying about big mechanical stuff! Nothing to see here...move along, move along! James
Oh dear god what happened to that car??!! Why did someone paint the wheels BLACK!? That's the same one that was at Motorcar Gallery when I looked at it in June 2006. But the wheels were silver back then. I remember the car ran very well, had a brand new exhaust on it, and sounded amazing. It also was BOUNCY due to what seemed like seized rear shocks. Cosmetically it was decent enough, although I hated the tan-tweed carpet and headliner. I think part of this is that the picture quality you have there is pretty bad, looks like a cell phone camera. That makes the car look worse than it really is. Motorcar Gallery had it listed for nearly a year for $27500. Not sure what this guy paid. But certainly low $20s (especially now that you have to repaint the wheels) isn't out of the question. I'll see if I can find the write-up I did on the car when I first saw it 2006... Dave Stacy has also seen the car in person..... http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=643290&stc=1&d=1197583272
Yeah, it's for myself. I have an unchecked enthusiasm for diamond in the rough (even very rough!), and therefore i seem to seek the needy. God help me. For me actually, the cosmetics are what i most fear, and this one's got a horrible respray (non matching color cleverly disguised with strategically applied grime...see pics). How much would you pay?
Start at $20k and work up? Maybe come to $22-23k in the negotiations? Then again, for $5k more, that $28k car from Forza was really nice, however it was a Series I and this is a Series II for what it's worth. Some people pay more for what they want/need. In this case, the black interior (well, mostly) and series II make it worth a bit for myself. Others however would like the series I for various reasons. I will say that the car will need something with the rear suspension. Shock rebuild or self-leveling deactivation or something. There have been some posts on series II rear suspension refurbs, so do some searches. This car does seem decently strong in the engine and exhaust department. I didn't get to drive it though as Ed did all the piloting, so allow that to pepper my words.
Other than the rear suspension, what is the difference between series 1 and 2. As far as the car running, when i drove it seemed not to want to accelerate; it was boging down up the rpm range.
Oh, do some searches, we've covered this quite a bit...but.... Series 1 specifics fog lights covered by grille. No rear fogs in bumper wood grain center console and "old" style dash from the 365GTC/4 and 365GT4 2+2. mechanical hood and trunk (boot) openings black rear section where the taillights are 15" wheels. non-self leveling suspension (I'm not 100% sure on this..) Series 2 specifics fog lights visible next to the grille rear fogs in bumper black center console with updated dash that continued through to the 412 electric hood and trunk openers....mostly a disadvantage as they always are going bad, etc. Most of the time the rear section is body color, not black, except very early series 2 cars. TRX wheels self-leveling suspension (I'm not 100% sure on this.) Nothing major....I just happen to prefer the Series II interior over the Series I.....and I like the body color rear section. Other than that, I have no preference between Series I and II.
I looked at that car and I wouldn't. I could have bought it and I passed. In order to make this car nice you'll have more in it than a nice one would cost. You can buy a really nice 5-speed for the mid 30's to 40k. Yep. Those will run you over 3g's to get repaired. They are out of production so repair and rebuild is the only thing you can do. The mechanics will kill you cost wise if the mantenance has been deferred. It costs a ton to get these cars up to date. Once they get caught up they run quite well and are a joy to drive. But a bill of $6,000 to $10,000 from the mechanic to repair things that have been let go for the past 10 years is very common. These cars are very heavy and eat front suspension components. If the front end hasn't been rebuilt, and if I remember correctly on that car it hasn't, you'll need to do it. Figure a few thousand. The cosmetics? Just imagine what it costs to paint one of these. Then imagine fixing that rust. Body parts are unobtainium. Interior pars are worse. The golden rule; buy the best example you can find. There is NO SUCH THING as a cheap Ferrari.
The worst part about Fchat is the "if it ain't perfect it's a parts car" mentality. In the real world, there's a place for well used cars too. Offer 15K cash, use it as a driver. Fix what you want to fix. If you want a show car, go buy one somebody else has dumped the money into. If you pass, let me know where it is.
Well thats taking it a bit extreme don't you think? Thats ok, I've been known to do the same thing. Tillman you and I just don't see these cars in the same light. I don't think you're wrong, I just see them differently. You can imagine using them as drivers and transportation. I have an F250, and an SEL for transportation. I see these as toys and I want to mother them back to their original glory. You'll jump in them and overlook the rust spots or troubled systems and I want to pat them on the head and say "poor baby, who did this to you". It just a difference of viewpoint. I used to view them as you do. You wouldn't believe some of the cars I used to drive daily. Before I was 30 I never owned anything but a euro sports car. You'd bust a gut looking at some of the pictures I have I see them different now, probably because I can afford to and because I'm not 20 anymore. I admit it; I miss the old days where I'd drive anything, but I don't miss being stranded on the side of the road. I still feel the sense of adventure when I take one of my toys out for a drive. Do they have to be perfect? No, but when people come on here and ask for opinions on a car I call them as I see them. Telling someone 'yep, she's a 'beauty" when its obvious she's not isn't doing a service to that person and could get them into serious trouble if they are not experienced in these cars.
This thread happens to be the latest, but certainly I wasn't intending to call you out personally. I do agree with what I quoted, an honest assessment is truly the fairest for all involved. That said, both here, and in the 3x8 section, I have seen cars that could have been good drivers and given someone a lot of joy slagged off as nothing more than donors. Maybe it's coming from a hot rod background, but rarely have I seen a complete car that was unusable. Financially, would it make sense to buy car A that needs works vs car B that's been restored? Probably not, IF your goal and purpose is to have a perfect weekend car. For me at least, part of the joy of these cars is in the disassembly, repair, cleaning, rebuilding, etc. I enjoy a weekend replacing wheel bearings or whatever just as much as driving it and showing off. These cars are ALL rare, and most people in the world (or heck, even in the US) never get a chance to see, touch, drive any Ferrari at all. If one more can make it out of a garage and into the heart of an enthusiast, that's a GOOD thing. That colors my viewpoint, and that's why the 'forget it, let it rot' statements bug me. Again, there's no animosity here, I just want to make that clear.
Didn't think there was. One of these days we should get the Dallas and Houston gang to meet up 1/2 way. My vineyard is in Centerville. I'll bring the pictures of an old GT6 I used to have where you could see the pavement through the rust holes in the floor. I drove it everyday in Chicago, even in the winter. It was pretty fun watching the snow come through the floor and fill the passenger seat up. That, however, wasn't well recieved by the girl I was dating at the time who was sitting in that seat.
Biggest difference is the placement of the AC vents. On SII they aim at the passengers, on SI they aim at the windsheild. If you live in a warm climate, SII is basically mandatory - and the dual AC option is pretty valuable to. A
What in the world needs to be done to the front suspension? I have 928's and they are heavy up front too (though not like the 400's) but I have never even heard of a front suspension rebuild, I don't even have any idea what that would look like and entail??? James
I would imagine something like this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FERRARI-308-246-365-400I-328-BALL-JOINTS-BUSHINGS-KIT_W0QQitemZ180209513275QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item180209513275 $559.00 and a little elbow grease is a good start to tightening it right up. Just did that treatment on my v12 e-type, and other than messing with the unusual torsion spring setup, it was quite enjoyable. I ended up powder coating all components, and much like Tillman (i surmise), i seem to find quite a bit of satisfaction in breathing new life in well used cars.
whatever the salvage yard will charge you to crush it while you witness the destruction to make sure it was done
ball joints, tis rods, bearings, and on and on. Think REALLY heavy then think really expensive parts (why? because you'll pay it).
