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Help! Mondial 3.2 ABS Brake Failure

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by mickarrows, Nov 15, 2004.

  1. mickarrows

    mickarrows Rookie

    Sep 22, 2004
    7
    UK
    Full Name:
    Mick Arrowsmith
    Just had a really sound service from Verdi UK (who I would certainly recommend), so after collecting the car (3.2 Cab) last week I thought it would be nice to take it for a blast in the relative sunshine of Weymouth yesterday.
    Everything was going just fine (in fact the car's performance has been transformed since the service) until I noticed myy ABS light come on.
    After creeping home to investigate the fault I rounded the corner of my road when the ! warning light appeared so I coasted onto my drive and started to have a good look around.
    I took the cowlings off around the ABS and clutch servo as well as the one around the ABS control unit on the opposite side of the car.
    I was hoping that a relay or fuse could have been the culprit but after checking the control unit fuses they all were ok although I had no way to actually test the relays.
    I noticed that the ABS pump did no longer make its loud whining noise when the ignition key was turned before startup (or intermittantly during engine running over long priods), and sure enough I tried the car up and down the street and now have absolutely no assisted brakes, so when I press the brake pedal when the engine is running it is pretty much solid and the car takes a ridiculous distance to stop.
    I thought that the pump (situated under the black accumulator(gold cylindrical in shape with a black plastic cap on the end))was maybe not getting any feed but on checking the two pin plug to it I found that I was getting around the 12v which I presume it requires.
    I have been told this morning by a very good source to check to see that the earth is good to the pump which I have not yet done so, or maybe even to check the relays themselves but I am unsure on how to do this. The same source has told me that he has never had to change an ABS pump (which sort of shatters my theory of a new pump being required)
    I am almost positive that this system would be the same as that fitted to a 328 so if anyone has any info please help.
    Have noticed that all items appear to be easy enough to access and that all ATE numbers are easily visible, and I would have a bench facility to test the pump on if it does need to be removed although I could do with a bit of advice as there are high pressures involved with this stuff.
    Any assistance would be appreciated as I've got a wedding in two weeks time and really do not want to let my customer down.
    Regards from a rookie in trouble........
     
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  3. AR!

    AR! Formula Junior

    Apr 8, 2004
    974
    Berlin, Germany
    Some questions:

    Is your ABS an ATE Teves Mark II?

    Did you read the failure code?

    Do you have the WSM?
     
  4. mickarrows

    mickarrows Rookie

    Sep 22, 2004
    7
    UK
    Full Name:
    Mick Arrowsmith
    The final chapter to the story (which wasn't exactly the novel I was expecting to write)......
    After posting this thread I tried to source the pump which I had been told has been reserved by ATE suppliers for Ferraris sole use therefore I was forced to ring the Maranello Uk guys. Imagine my surprise when they let me know in not so gentle terms that if I did need this part (ATE part no 10.05111-9020.1 stamped on the pump itself) I would have to pay £947+vat......not good. After cursing my father for ever getting me into Italian cars and deciding what to pack when my wife found out (I'm sure there are cheaper ways to get divorced) I decided to get a second opinion on my findings. Source 2 seemed to be of the same opinion that my pump had somehow seized (it was always quite loud) and that if I had a voltage to it with ignition on, it should be working.
    That evening the missus was at work, I had to take my daughter to a swimming lesson and on top of that cook our dinner. (when daddy cooks its normally fish and chips) I actually pushed the boat out and cooked a bolognaise, which did eat into my fault finding time but I had more or less decided at the time that the 1 hour I had between dinner ending and my daughter having to be in bed would be woefully inadequate for the job in hand anyway. Nevertheless I decided to push on and left her dancing in the kitchen to crack on with the almost certain removal of the pump.
    As the message on the accumulator states, I stamped on my brake pedal >25 times before disconnecting the battery and then removing any parts of the abs system.
    I thought for once I would disconnect the battery properly (instead of blindly undoing one terminal to save taking the wheel arch liner out) after realising that this model had a removable cut-out in the fibreglass bulkhead adjacent to the battery where the washer bottle sits....(I’m sure my previous mondial did not have one of those).
    With a clear view of the battery my heart skipped when I found a broken termination from the + terminal of the battery which contained two hefty pink wires (which I had noticed were similar to those fitted to abs control unit forward-most relay).
    At this point my daughter popped in to the garage to see what was going on and I told her that if she hears a noise when I touch the terminal to the battery then daddy is very clever as he has fixed his problem, we both cheered loudly when the (now comforting) noise of the abs pump echoed throughout the garage.
    My daughter got to bed on time, I am still married and I have learnt another valuable lesson about automotive electrics in general.....Never believe what you appear to see if you have not got a wiring diagram to double check.
    Knowing the likelihood of electrical faults in older cars it is probably worthwhile having a good look around all connections/fuses and relays available before you make a decision that a mechanical component is unserviceable.
    It was luck really that I found this lead because I would certainly not have jacked the car up to disconnect the battery and would have probably caused a lot of unnecessary work removing a perfectly good pump to bench test it.
    If you've got one of those access panels I would take it off to have a look at you battery as my terminal on this lead appeared to be excessively long (and orientated vertically) which is what I attribute the failure to.
    Thanks do go out to both sources (but particularly source 1 who assured me the fault would not be the pump) and to AR! who had replied to my initial thread.
     
  5. AR!

    AR! Formula Junior

    Apr 8, 2004
    974
    Berlin, Germany
    Thanks a lot for the write up, I found it to be very encouraging as my ABS isn´t properly working at present. Time to look at the electrical connections .... :)
     
  6. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
    BANNED

    Jul 22, 2003
    8,520
    Melbourne
    Full Name:
    Phil Hughes
    I'm a bit confused though as to how your read a voltage supply at the pump before, yet it didn't work....

    Did you check your supply using a chassis earth point, not the pumps own earth circuit?? Meaning that your renewed connection maybe trips a relay that earths the pump...and that the problem the whole time was a missing earth, not feed??
     
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