Help!! OBD shows cylinder 5 Misfire and also readiness montiors not working. | FerrariChat

Help!! OBD shows cylinder 5 Misfire and also readiness montiors not working.

Discussion in '360/430' started by KILOCHARLIE, Mar 26, 2013.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. KILOCHARLIE

    KILOCHARLIE Formula Junior

    Oct 14, 2012
    321
    Cardiff, UK
    Full Name:
    KC
    Cel keeps coming on. P0305 for cyl5 misfire. Had it 3 times now over a week and also one P0152 - 02 sensor high voltage bank 2 sensor 1, which I guess is as of a result of the misfire?

    Searches on here suggest some sort of test with brake cleaner to test the gasket underneath the inlet but I'm not to sure exactly what that involves or if I can do it myself. Another person who had the same code found it was just a faulty spark plug. Is it easy for me to swap the plug with another cylinder to see if that's the cause? As you can probably tell I've never done either before.

    Should I be concerned and take it to my dealer straight away or are there things I can try beforehand even if only to localise the problem?

    OBD also says some of my readiness monitors are incomplete too. The evaporative system and the catalyst system monitoring are always out and on my last check the oxygen sensor was too. Is this something to worry about too?

    Sorry for all the questions but I am worried and would appreciate any feedback.
     
  2. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie

    Jan 18, 2013
    4,425
    Full Name:
    Michael
    When you get multiple faults on the ODB it usually means a real problem as opposed to a bad sensor. If #5 is bad your engine should be losing power, feel rough and sound a bit odd.

    I would immediately park it until I know the cause of the misfires because you could be killing the catalytic converter(s) if the plug is not firing properly and exhausting unburnt gas on the cats. It will degrade the cats and will kill them very quickly if you keep driving the car under the circumstances. I imagine Ferrari cats are very expensive to replace.

    You need to take out the #5 spark plug to see if it has been fouled. Not sure what your engine looks like but one possible reason for spark plug fouling is if oil is running on to the spark plug well from a leak in the cylinder head gasket seals. Look for oil in the area before you reach for the spark plug.

    You need to know the proper gap for the plug. Best thing is to have a replacement spark plug ready to gap and put in service when you check #5. You shouldn't be swapping a bad plug around. Exhausting unburnt gas is bad news for your cats, regardless of which cylinder it's coming from. Swap with the new plug instead.

    You need a service manual for your car if you want to do any serious work on it. You cannot rely on trial and error. Unless you have a lot of time to slowly research this I suggest you have it serviced by a shop that knows the model.

    Replacing the plug might protect your exhaust system enough to get the car to the shop but I would go over the problem with the mechanic before driving it. Best thing is to have it placed on a flat bed and towed to the garage.

    Play it safe and good luck!
     
  3. FerrariDublin

    FerrariDublin F1 Rookie

    Jun 14, 2009
    3,454
    Dublin, Ireland
    Full Name:
    Greg
    Given the problem and your comments about your experience I feel this is probably best left to a professional. The problem could be one of a number of relatively easily diagnosed (and repaired) faults so if you have a relationship with a non-Ferrari mechanic you could start there rather than rush in to the expense of dealership costs.

    Best of luck, it's probably a relatively minor fix.
     
  4. KILOCHARLIE

    KILOCHARLIE Formula Junior

    Oct 14, 2012
    321
    Cardiff, UK
    Full Name:
    KC
    Thanks so much guys. Definitely more worrying than I thought so I'll stop driving it and get my mechanic to have a look.

    Just had a little look around the plugs etc and couldn't see any obvious problem there but then I checked the inlet manifold. I can see the paper gasket which is dry and intact all the way round except for the right hand side when looking at the engine, in the corner closest to the back of the car. Is this above cylinder 5? Really worried now :(

    I will take some pics now....
     
  5. KILOCHARLIE

    KILOCHARLIE Formula Junior

    Oct 14, 2012
    321
    Cardiff, UK
    Full Name:
    KC
    #5 KILOCHARLIE, Mar 27, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    First pic is of the left side bank (when standing at the rear of car) and shows a dry gasket.

    Second pic is the opposite side and oil coming from the gap.

    Can anyone confirm this is likely my problem? Will do some research if so as I guess its not a simple problem to fix.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  6. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

    Dec 8, 2004
    12,665
    South East
    Full Name:
    Jimmie
    The normal numbering would have cylinder 5 as left rear when looking forward

    Are these codes from a generic reader or a proper SD2 - if the former it might be time to get it properly looked at as noted by both previous posters
     
  7. KILOCHARLIE

    KILOCHARLIE Formula Junior

    Oct 14, 2012
    321
    Cardiff, UK
    Full Name:
    KC
    Phew, I didn't know which was cylinder 5 so at least thats given me a some hope. The gasket seems ok above the rear left. I'm using just a standard OBD unfortunately. I'm hoping my local guy can check it over first without having to take it somewhere with an SD2. Especially if its not advisable to drive as is.

    I'm praying its just the plug or something simple but all plugs were changed a year ago and the car has done 5k since so I'm guessing its unlikely.
     
  8. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

    Dec 8, 2004
    12,665
    South East
    Full Name:
    Jimmie
    As long as you are near the plug check (by swopping) the coil above it as they too can go bad (but I don't know if that would give the same code)
     
  9. KILOCHARLIE

    KILOCHARLIE Formula Junior

    Oct 14, 2012
    321
    Cardiff, UK
    Full Name:
    KC
    Ok cool, thats something I am competant with at least. The misfire code doesn't pop up straight away though so I would have to drive it a bit after swapping the coils, dya reckon this is worth it? I cleared codes yesterday and the misfire didn't flag up for about 20 miles although it does sound slightly lumpy from start up (although doesn't sound like there is something seriously wrong). Thanks again mate.
     
  10. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 13, 2009
    16,527
    Charleston, SC
    Full Name:
    Curt
    Swap the coils from one side to the other.. it's cheap, easy (2 10mm bolts) and if is the problem (replicates on the other bank) then you've saved some $$. replace with a cheap coil and plug.
     
  11. KILOCHARLIE

    KILOCHARLIE Formula Junior

    Oct 14, 2012
    321
    Cardiff, UK
    Full Name:
    KC
    Thanks guys, will def do that now. Managed to finally get hold of my mechanic and he suggested the same. Said it would be rare for me to much damage running on a test drive with a misfire if not giving it the beans so I'll pray thats the case. He reckons it is almost certainly a coil or plug with that code. Said I would be getting lean mix codes if the gasket had gone, plus my LTFT was around 6% which I think is pretty normal. Saying that though he's no ferrari mechanic so I take you guys word over his so let me know if thats not right.

    If after swapping the coils the misfire stays on cylinder 5, I might swap the plug with another cylinder just to confirm the misfire swaps with it. This would confirm the plug right? My mechanic said it wouldn't be worth it and just to replace all plugs if the coil wasn't at fault. Can't see the problem with just replacing one myself, especially as they are not very old but I think he thinks all ferrari owners have money to spend on stuff like that without a second though. If only!
     
  12. FerrariDublin

    FerrariDublin F1 Rookie

    Jun 14, 2009
    3,454
    Dublin, Ireland
    Full Name:
    Greg
    Plugs should last a long time but they can fail. I had one go bad and while there was no code thrown I had a mis and an overheating (red hot) cat as a result. It was the #5 plug too as it happens.

    Your plenum chamber does indeed appear to be leaking from above the #4 cylinder area. Not an expensive or difficult fix but worth doing. A leak there probably would not effect a single cylinder however, more likely all of them. That said, it shouldn't really be possible to have any kind of significant leak of oil from there. It should be "dry" or almost dry in there so again, this is worth getting attended to as there may be other issues at play.

    Incidentally, it's the gaskets at the bottom of the eight "legs" of the manifold that you need to be studying for potential leaks. That's where a leak can/will have an effect on an individual cyclinder, not up a the top.

    It does sound like you do actually have a misfire. If you allow the car to idle and disconnect the electrical connector from the #5 coil you should/feel hear a slight change in the operation of the car. You quite possibly will not in your case.

    If you don't then it's likely to be the coil or the plug. You could then swap the coils from say #5 #6 and repeat. If you now have a slight hesitation when you disconnect #5 but you now have no change when you disconnect #6 then it's almost certainly the coil (now moved to #6). If you still have no change when you disconnect #5 then it's most likely the #5 plug.

    If the plug, remove it and replace with another. Check first (phone camera works well) there's no liquid down in the opening for the plug. You could have a pooling of water or coolant in there and the last thing you want to do is remove the plug and allow any liquid into the cylinder.

    Please forgive my earlier post, you didn't "sound" like someone who was too familiar with life in the engine bay! :)

    Best of luck.
     
  13. FerrariDublin

    FerrariDublin F1 Rookie

    Jun 14, 2009
    3,454
    Dublin, Ireland
    Full Name:
    Greg
    Absolutely no problem changing only one plug.

    Bear in mind though that this misfire may be symptomatic of other issues that ought to get attention and while changing just one plug or coil may cure your immediate problem the underlying cause might still be present.
     
  14. KILOCHARLIE

    KILOCHARLIE Formula Junior

    Oct 14, 2012
    321
    Cardiff, UK
    Full Name:
    KC
    Thanks a lot for the advice and no need at all to apologise for your earlier post! I've just changed the coil with cylinder 4 and the plug with cylinder 6, then cleared the codes. Hopefully now if I keep an eye on the obd then it should narrow it down to hopefully the cause of the issue. Your method sounds a lot better actually and quicker to diagnose but it getting dark and starting to snow in cardiff so i'll leave it for today I think.

    The spark plugs were different to the type listed in the manual. I have NGK R PMR8B while the manual recommends PMR7A. Do you know if this is ok and if I do replace a plug, which type to go for? I guess mix and matching isn't good?

    I saw your previous thread when you had the same problem and it has helped me so thanks for that. I think the plenum chamber leak might actually be just spilt oil on the engine cover that has trickled down. I've cleaned it up and will keep an eye. Positive thinking anyway! I didn't know the gasket everyone has mentioned is at the bottom of the legs. I have no idea how I would see if that is leaking especially at the rear where cylinder 5 is! I'm guessing I'll have to look into that if cylinder 5 is still misfiring with a replaced coil and plug.

    Thanks again for your help and please keep your fingers crossed that its only something simple!!
     
  15. FerrariDublin

    FerrariDublin F1 Rookie

    Jun 14, 2009
    3,454
    Dublin, Ireland
    Full Name:
    Greg
    Just want to be sure you know your cylinder numbers...,

    As you look into the engine bay from the rear of the car #1 is at one o'clock, #4 is at four o'clock, #5 is at seven and #8 is at eleven.

    You mentioned #5 being at the back and difficult to see. It's actually one of the easier ones so I'm concerned you are confused!
     
  16. KILOCHARLIE

    KILOCHARLIE Formula Junior

    Oct 14, 2012
    321
    Cardiff, UK
    Full Name:
    KC
    Damn, I thought it was the one on the left furthest back! Greyboxer said...

    The normal numbering would have cylinder 5 as left rear when looking forward

    ... But i guess i've taken it wrongly as rear being the back of the engine bay, not rear of the car. Thanks for noticing though, guess I'll be putting my coat on and getting back out there with a torch then!
     
  17. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

    Dec 8, 2004
    12,665
    South East
    Full Name:
    Jimmie
  18. KILOCHARLIE

    KILOCHARLIE Formula Junior

    Oct 14, 2012
    321
    Cardiff, UK
    Full Name:
    KC
    Thanks guys, my fault entirely. And yes I should have done a search for the spark plug too.

    Going to change the correct coil and plug now and then going back to sleep I think. Or sufficating myself with a pillow might be better!
     
  19. FerrariDublin

    FerrariDublin F1 Rookie

    Jun 14, 2009
    3,454
    Dublin, Ireland
    Full Name:
    Greg
    #19 FerrariDublin, Mar 27, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    No worries KC, I think we were both right, just interpreted incorrectly. As I often say, a picture tells a thousand words........ this lifted (shamelessly) from another site [ahem! :D], F430 and 360 have same layout though.

    P.S. Keep track of all those movements now or you'll be in an even bigger pickle! ;D
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  20. KILOCHARLIE

    KILOCHARLIE Formula Junior

    Oct 14, 2012
    321
    Cardiff, UK
    Full Name:
    KC
    No it was my fault being a numpty!!! Yes all changed correctly now. One handed with the other holding a torch, in the pitch black and freezing snowy conditions. It must be love!!

    Once again thanks for all your help and I will report back once I know if it was the coil or plug or something else.
     

Share This Page