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HELP! OC Ferrari damaged my car fenders

Discussion in '348/355' started by 355Baron, Jan 22, 2022.

  1. 355Baron

    355Baron Rookie

    Dec 14, 2021
    22
    LA
    Full Name:
    Allan Baronian
    Hey everyone, took my car into Ferrari of newport for some minor issues, as well as to swap out all 4 tires. I just got my car back yesterday and this morning I noticed my 2 front wheels wells bent and the paint chipping. Left a message for the service provider, waiting for a call back. Any advice on How I should approach the situation Thank you!
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  3. Shorn355

    Shorn355 F1 Rookie
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    Jan 13, 2011
    2,658
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    Scott
    Sig Sauer P229

    Seriously though- Did they happen to do a pic/video walk-around when you took it in? Do you have any very recent photos of the car prior to taking it in?

    Hopefully the dealer will apologize and do whatever at their cost to make it right. BUT if they play hardball and say it didn't happen while in their possession then you have a barfight on your hands so better to be prepared.

    How strong is your relationship with the dealer? Much less damage but I took my 458 in for service and a rock chipped/cut my PPF on the hood and very tiny dent while they were drive-cycling it- Minor but very visible to me and i try to keep my cars as perfect as possible- Dealer profusely apologized and had PDR guy fix minor dent and entire new PPF.

    Lastly and hopefully it does not come to it but the local news is a last resort- Most have some sort of "Troubleshooters" team that eat these things up- Just be aware that this route burns bridges and exposes you as well as the dealer.

    Hopefully they apologize and make it right- I would exhaust all the "friendly" options before going into barfight mode.

    Sucks man- Sorry to see and hear- Hope it works out.
     
  4. 355Baron

    355Baron Rookie

    Dec 14, 2021
    22
    LA
    Full Name:
    Allan Baronian
    The car is mostly garaged and covered and I don’t have many pics of it :/ I’ve put maybe 8k miles on it in 20 years. Kept it MINT. Don’t really have a relationship with any dealership either honestly.

    He just got back to me, ofcourse immediately defensive saying how he doesn’t think it’s possible for his guys to have done it. But I texted him the photos and he’s going to review them with the service director.

    My concern is, how is this even fixed, is it possible to get it back to perfect? Also, what about losing the original paint? Depreciation?
     
  5. Shorn355

    Shorn355 F1 Rookie
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    Jan 13, 2011
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    #4 Shorn355, Jan 22, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2022
    Yeah your concerns are certainly valid. Lots of experts on here so I'm sure more knowledgeable folks will chime in but IMHO since it is purely cosmetic and nothing integral or structural to the car I'm pretty sure it can fall under the "touch up" category and not make it on to Carfax etc. I would keep the "before" pics and take "after" pics once corrected for full ethical disclosure to a potential buyer should you ever sell it. I don't think it will/would affect the value of the car much as long as it's fixed properly- While it is your prized possession- as is mine- the fact is it is not a museum piece or some "1of1" car- Lots of 355s and most are/have been driven so things happen and get fixed.

    As far as the damage itself I find it correlatingly interesting that BOTH front wheel wells are damaged at the same time you had all 4 tires replaced. To me this has something to do with who/how the front tire work was done. Or someone hit a speed bump or something else that would force BOTH front wheels up into the wheel wells- Just speculation to take for what it's worth.

    If they are smart and good business people in for the long run they will make it right- their cost in labor and materials is FAR less than potential reputation damage.

    I'm no body specialist but from the pics this should be able to be fixed and you will never know it was there- Good body/paint people are flippin magicians and can work miracles. It looks to me like the wheels were pushed up into the wheel wells and then when they came back down they pulled out the wrapped bodywork and jacked the paint- A good body/paint person should be able to match the paint exactly even though not new and re-wrap the portions pulled out and back to perfect.

    Good luck- I know how annoying this is- It's one thing when you cause damage- Just part of ownership- Quite another when someone else's carelessness causes it.

    Hang in there-
     
    Mike Morrissey likes this.
  6. Koenig1

    Koenig1 Formula Junior

    Aug 25, 2016
    326
    Ottawa ON
    Full Name:
    Sandy
    That kind of damage is usually created by too large a wheel tire combination. When ripping a corner with a bump, or even turning with a pothole creates that lip. The tire tends to 'grab' the fender. To correct without chipping the paint you'll need a heat gun to warm the area and soft large rubber hammer, or rounded wooden dolly block and tap gently to smooth out properly. Go gently and it will not be noticeable. Heat gun on warm is your friend!
     
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  8. Shorn355

    Shorn355 F1 Rookie
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    Jan 13, 2011
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    FWIW going forward I strongly suggest asking the dealer/shop to do a video/photo inspection of the car when you drop it off- If they won't do it then do it yourself- and make sure they see you doing it-

    With today's phone cameras it is easy and everything is date/time stamped. Hopefully you never need it but nice to have should you (as in this case)- Takes all the "didn't happen here" crap out of the conversation and does not take that long.

    My local dealer does it without asking but some do/some dont- but doesn't mean you can't :)

    Cheers :cool:
     
    Mike Morrissey likes this.
  9. U-Boat Commander

    U-Boat Commander Formula Junior

    Jun 7, 2008
    639
    USA
    #7 U-Boat Commander, Jan 22, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2022
    I don't see how it's possible that the dealer could have done that when changing tires. Looks like it was done while driving as described by Koenig and you just didn't notice it. What's more likely, a skilled mechanic managed to mess up both wheel wells when performing the simple task of changing tires (and they managed it for both fronts but not the rears) or both front tires are scraping?

    Which wheels are you running? They appear to be non-OEM.

    I also don't think it's reasonable to expect a dealer to take a video of every inch of your car when you drop it off. If you want to do that, then that's something you should do.

    You might want to ask the mods to change the title of this thread because it could be viewed as libelous.
     
    Husker likes this.
  10. Pepsi10

    Pepsi10 Formula Junior

    Nov 24, 2008
    778
    InlandNorthWest
    Full Name:
    Mike M
    Sorry. Good luck on getting it sorted. I just saw my PDR guy recently (about my Jeep) and that went, as usual, very well. Maybe you can find a good person in your area. I think I do agree with the others above. Seems more likely your tires are “grabbing” at the fenders. Separately, I have changed my share of tires, of course always with some kind of car jack, and I can not see how one could damage the top of the fender well like that during such work.
     
  11. Targatime

    Targatime Formula Junior

    Feb 22, 2014
    638
    Los Angeles
    You put too wide rims and tires on your car that rub the fenders and now you're blaming the dealer for your mistake. Not good. Check yourself.
     
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  13. Ricambi America

    Ricambi America F1 World Champ
    Sponsor Owner

    Did you have different sized tires installed on the same rims, or completely different tire/rims installed?
     
  14. 355Baron

    355Baron Rookie

    Dec 14, 2021
    22
    LA
    Full Name:
    Allan Baronian
    Looks like they are rubbing, just noticed the tire ripping… but again, how is this my fault, they suggested these tires, and installed them.
     
  15. FSM348

    FSM348 Formula Junior
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    Feb 13, 2017
    434
    Right in the middle
    Those appear to be 18" wheels. I'm not sure what size you are running but I ran 18" 360 wheels on my 348 with zero problems. The top of the wheel will tuck in slightly on compression but it's hard to tell from the picture how the offset works with the wheel well.

    I have a question though, the pictures you show are of the car on the ground or on a lift? If it's on the ground then there should be plenty of travel to not bottom out on that part of the fender. It does appear that if those were caused by the tire and if it was done while driving then very likely it happened during compression and while turning sharply bringing the leading edge of the tire out of the wheel well area. On side looks like this was done while turning both directions thus two different points of damage. Just my guess though.

    Take a very close picture of the metal shown where the paint chipped. If it is new, there should be zero oxidation or residue.

    Another question I would ask of the shop is if the installer noticed that damage. There is simply no way a tire tech is going to miss that damage on a Ferrari and he would have mentioned it to somebody or at least kept a mental note in his head.
     
    Shorn355 likes this.
  16. Shorn355

    Shorn355 F1 Rookie
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    Jan 13, 2011
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    Agree and as stated looks more like the wheels got/have been pushed up into the wheel wells- Speed bump(s) or as Koenig described. The OP said 8k in 20 years and garaged and covered- which leads me to think this sort of damage would not go unnoticed either while driving or detailing the car after the drive and before covering back up- But suppose it's possible.

    Again- Date/time stamped pics or vid before dropping the car in someone else's hands saves all the drama- why do you think reputable auto transport haulers do it? It not only protects the owner but the shop/dealer/hauler as well.

    I told FoD I dropped off my F40 and they returned me a 458- Didn't work- Ha :) :) :cool:
     
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  17. FSM348

    FSM348 Formula Junior
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    Feb 13, 2017
    434
    Right in the middle
    Just saw you posted this before my last post. If they recommended that size then it sounds like you have at least a leg to stand on. Other part of the coin is you brought in a car with wheels larger than factory installed options and its unlikely they would not have realized this if it is a big chain. Perhaps consider splitting the cost?

    What size are the tires?
     
  18. craze

    craze Formula Junior

    Mar 5, 2021
    615
    Melbourne
    Full Name:
    Michael
    Did they just fit the tires?? And are the original or aftermarket rims?
     
  19. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    22,435
    socal
    Looks like "extreme contact" tire to fender. The only thing guaranteed is OE fitment on OE alignment and suspension set-up. If it is not OE then you have to do your homework as to fitment or have a pro check for that. The tire monkeys don't have the tools or talent to put your car though it's complete range of motion. It is possible to get close by eye but You actually have to remove the spring to go complete range of motion. You also need to check the suspension set-up so what happens on the left happens on the right for a streetcar.
     
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  20. PAUL500

    PAUL500 F1 Rookie

    Jun 23, 2013
    2,532
    They appear to be 18" BBS LMs, lovely wheel on a 355 but I agree that damage has been done by the tyres hitting the fenders, tyres probably too wide for the rims.

    A good smart repairer would massage that metal back into shape and touch up the paint no problem, but you need to go to a narrower tyre first, with a smaller sidewall.
     
  21. johnk...

    johnk... F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Jun 11, 2004
    9,434
    They will probably give you one of 3 answers:

    1) Was like that when you brought it is, not our problem.

    2) The car has been lowered, not our problem.

    3) The wheels aren't stock wheels, not our problem.

    Oh, wait. One more.

    4) Not our problem but our body shop will fix it for you for $5,000.

    (draft typed 1/22/2022, 1:51 EST)

    Take it to a Paintless dent removal. Use a little touch up on the spot where paint is damaged. But first check the tire clearances when turned to lock.
     
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  22. johnk...

    johnk... F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Jun 11, 2004
    9,434
    And seriously, The damage is at the top of the wheel arch. With the car lifted to remove the wheel that would be the point of maximum clearance. I don;t see how that could happen by removing the wheel. Even if the tire caught the fender when being removed I can see it doing that damage. As other have said, looks like that would happen with car on ground and turned sharply left and right.
     
    Mike Morrissey likes this.
  23. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jul 28, 2018
    4,184
    Central NJ
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    Eric
    That happens if you have wheel spacers and the car is a little too low in front, thei car will catch the inner lip and pull it if you don't roll the fenders.

    Sent using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
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  24. 355Baron

    355Baron Rookie

    Dec 14, 2021
    22
    LA
    Full Name:
    Allan Baronian
    Bought the car over 20 years ago with the bbs lm’s with no issues. Shouldnt a Ferrari dealership that deals with this kind of stuff everyday know that this might happen if they put on larger tires. I never drive the car hard, this happened immediately after pick up with easy driving. Also, the car is stock other than the tires. So bummed about this!
     
  25. Shorn355

    Shorn355 F1 Rookie
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    Jan 13, 2011
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    From the OPs original post the "shop" is an authorized Ferrari Dealer/Service center- Not "Bob's Tire & Wheel" :)

    I would expect them to know clearance specs etc and not do or allow something stupid- Or at least state "all bets off" if the owner insists.

    To me there are several scenarios- all avoidable:

    1) Damage was there before taking it in to Dealer due to non-oem wheel and/or tire combo.
    > Owners problem

    2) Owner had non-oem wheels installed by someone other than dealer with no rubbing- then took to dealer for tires and combination of new tires and non- oem wheels resulted in rubbing during Dealer test drive.
    > Split responsibility

    3) Dealer recommended and installed wheel/tire combo and caused damage during test drive
    > Dealer needs to make it right

    4) Dealer recommended and installed wheel/tire combo and test drove with no issues- Owner drove more aggressively on way home and caused the damage
    > Split responsibility

    All drama/debate could have been avoided with a few pics.

    Cheers :)
     
    Mike Morrissey likes this.
  26. FSM348

    FSM348 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 13, 2017
    434
    Right in the middle
    Are the sizes different than what was on it when you brought it in? If so why? If it was their suggestion then I’d be upset since you already knew what size tire works ok, such as the exact size it had on it when you drive it in the shop.
     
    Mike Morrissey likes this.
  27. Targatime

    Targatime Formula Junior

    Feb 22, 2014
    638
    Los Angeles
    OP, you need to take responsibility for your choices. I can't stand threads like this where someone screws up his own car and then tries to assign blame for his mistakes on a shop that did nothing wrong, impugning their reputation in the process. OP, you brought your car to a shop and told them to install tires you had chosen on the aftermarket rims you had chosen. The shop did as instructed. And the tires and rims you chose rubbed the fenders. And you blame them. It's ridiculous.

    Mods, I suggest deleting this thread. Ferrari of OC doesn't deserve this.
     
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  28. 355Baron

    355Baron Rookie

    Dec 14, 2021
    22
    LA
    Full Name:
    Allan Baronian
    Thanks for all the input guys. Contacted the service advisor again, he seemed empathetic about it all but no real answers till Monday. Not driving the car, having it towed to the dealer when the time comes.

    Just very disappointing that I can’t even trust a place like the one I took my car too, but they still have a chance to make it right. We shall see.
     

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