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Help on opinions on making a switch from C4S PDK to California

Discussion in 'California(Portofino)/Roma(Amalfi)' started by calitalia, Jun 28, 2010.

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  1. calitalia

    calitalia Formula Junior

    Sep 29, 2009
    536
    #1 calitalia, Jun 28, 2010
    Help on opinions on making a switch from C4S PDK to California ... I know this is Ferrari's community but please forgive me for my ignorance as I have never owned a Ferrari... I had always been a Porsche and German guy and had never owned an Italian made car... I had owned 2 911s and 1 boxster and wondering... and need help...

    I have owned my C4S PDK for 18 months and it's 2 years' old is coming up. The car is very rapid. The gearshifting is smooth and very fast... but lately I am contemplating the idea of trading it in for a California.

    I have always been a Porsche guy and never owned a Ferrari... I know I am a cruiser more and even with a C4S I have never really gone all out and crazy... not a track guy either but enjoyed the 4S tremendously in rain and as a daily driver.

    I wonder and worry that when I trade it in for a Ferrari, would it feel less nimble and rapid than a 4S. They are similar and different in many ways... including engine placements and V8 vs horizontally opposed 6... and engine noise... my heart is telling me to do it... but I worry that I will miss my old 4S PDK after 2 months... please advise. I would appreciate honest, good pros and cons opinion on the California VS 4S PDK.

    Alternatively, I could keep the 4S PDK and in 2011 get another new 911 next generation.
     
  2. not4one

    not4one Formula Junior

    May 23, 2010
    887
    CT, FL
    #2 not4one, Jun 28, 2010
    I love my California, but as a daily driver I would stick with the Porsche. The Cali is far more usable and everyday flexible than other Ferrari's, but not in the same daily-driver way as a C4S...having owned a 911 in the past myself.

    In a 911 it's nice to be able to run it thru the car wash, throw on some snow tires, run it down gravel roads, through pot holes, leave it with the parking guy, not worry about what dings and scratches will do to its value, change the oil every couple of years and forget about it...everyday things that a daily driver needs to be able to do. For me, and maybe it's just me, a California feels like it needs a little more care. Not everyone will agree, but I say stick with the old C4S (these days the trade-in value will have dropped like a rock anyway) and get a California for weekends and runs to the beach.

    As for your question about whether it's as nimble and rapid as a C4S...absolutely, and the shifting is instantaneous. In my view it's a much more engaging driving experience...it pushes you to drive it hard (even in auto mode). On the other hand it's not as comfortable loafing or trundling along in rush hour traffic as a 911 is.

     
  3. omniman

    omniman Formula Junior

    Aug 24, 2008
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    James L.
    #3 omniman, Jun 28, 2010
    I agree with you and think your right on about the differences with the cars however I would STILL think twice about leaving the Porsche with the valet. :) I can only add that the OP will be happy with either choice he makes, its a win-win. The lure of owning the Ferrari is strong however, and if he is already is curious then this car will likely pull him in. It's that good.
     
  4. RickLederman

    RickLederman F1 Rookie
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    Sep 18, 2007
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    #4 RickLederman, Jun 28, 2010
    I have owned three Porsche 928's, 1978, 1986, and 1990. Although they had much less power than the modern 911, I still had the thrill of driving a Porsche.

    In December 09 I took delivery of a 2010 California. Driving the Ferrari is totally different on many levels. Although I have driven a Porsche with the PDK last year it was not a turbo and performance was pretty good but not blistering. The feel of the Porsche PDK is similar to the Ferrari but the paddles in the Ferrari are in the proper place, unlike the Porsche. The Cali performs more like the Porsche turbo I would assume, meaning really powerful! The Ferrari sounds like a million bucks though, the Porsche does not. The exhaust note is quite addicting, and at 7,300 miles I had to replace the rear tires ... just on it every chance I get. The California is not perfect but pretty close! Brakes are really amazing, 106 feet 60 to zero according to Road & Track.

    When it comes to attention, if you don't like it then keep the Porsche. The Ferrari gets all kinds of attention. Not a single day has gone by without at least one camera coming out snaping a picture. Way too often I look in the mirrors and see the car behind shooting a photo with their phone camera. Tons of thumbs up, etc. That seldom will happen with the Porsche. I just had it happen now, looking out the window in my office.

    And there is more room in the Ferrari to travel with or play with. I fly R/C sailplanes and there is room for my 13 foot sailplane in its bag (wings break in two). It really makes a great daily driver ... and besides why drive a Porsche when you can drive a Ferrari?! :D This from a Porsche Club of America member for almost 30 years.
     
  5. FerrariMC

    FerrariMC Formula Junior

    Mar 2, 2006
    616
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    Mark C
    #5 FerrariMC, Jun 28, 2010
    DISCLAIMER: I'm NOT an owner, so my opinion may not matter to you.

    I didn't read what everyone wrote, word for word, but the California is on a totally different level, IMO. The Porsche C4S PDK is a beautiful car, with alot of positives, BUT owning a Ferrari is an "experience" everytime you drive it, rather than simply being a "great car." With the California, not only are you getting Ferrari's FIRST, front-engined V8 with the dual-clutch transmission (as you know), but you would also be getting Ferrari's FIRST retractable hard-top, so you're getting two great cars for one in this case. The California it truly the best of both worlds, plus the sound of the California ALONE, will make you melt. The Porsche simply doesn't have the sound or driving-manner of the California and despite what others' may think about Ferraris, this is one you could very well use as a daily-driver. I hope I haven't said too many obvious things, but just giving my opinion, either way, you're talking about TWO GREAT cars. Good luck and let us know what you eventually choose, with pics, LOL. Ciao!

    Mark
     
  6. RickLederman

    RickLederman F1 Rookie
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    #6 RickLederman, Jun 28, 2010
    Mark,

    You are right on. It is the experience. I would be just as concerned about door rash or stone chips with either car so that does not matter much. I take mine to WALMART and restaurants, although I do not let a valet take it. The look about the car just seems to keep people away, other than to take pictures. You just have to get used to knowing it will take a few hits. For not owning one, you hit the mark (no pun intended). Plus, the Cali looks possibly better with the top up. Porsche and other Ferrari rag tops look silly with the top up with their squished 356 look, the Cali still looks great.

    Good luck with your choice, it will be a hard one. If you get the chance get a ride or a drive in a California ... bet that makes your decision easier! If you are near NW Ohio stop by! One more thing, make it RED.

     
  7. jj525

    jj525 Karting

    Feb 8, 2009
    184
    Virginia, Florida
    #7 jj525, Jun 28, 2010
    The California is the logical next step for a C4S PDK owner. If you make the trade you will not regret it. Too many Ferrari owners confuse their cars with a $25 million GTO so they pamper them and worry about them and don't drive them hoping that will preserve the value. If you are buying a piece of art, don't drive it. If you are buying a car you will have a great time with it. The cars are made to be driven and especially the California.

    Do it!
     
  8. dbyt

    dbyt Rookie

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    #8 dbyt, Jun 29, 2010
    Being a long term Porsche owner and having driven both, I must say that the C4S and California are in different leagues on all levels. I had never ever considered a Ferrari until recently and when I got my first ride in a Cali, I was giggling like a little kid on his very first roller coaster ride. The performance, the sound and the feel just evokes that sort of reaction. That's how the Ferrari gets you. A word of warning, do not go drive one unless you are ready to pull the trigger.
     
  9. calitalia

    calitalia Formula Junior

    Sep 29, 2009
    536
    #9 calitalia, Jun 30, 2010

    Rick, it seems like you had crossed over to the land of the prancing horse and there's no turning back. I figure that some time in my life, I will have to try it and maybe in doing so, I will appreciate the 911 more or LESS... not until I have owned one can I really say... not just a test drive but the real ownership experience. My fear:

    1. Maintenance (Porsche are made not to break down)... Porsche is minimal and F is high maint and $$$
    2. Interior trimming... the old melting and disintegrating interior of Ferraris like the 360 or 355... the interior of a Porsche is down to Earth and sturdy
    3. Engine placement... being pulled from the front and being less nimble
    4. Depreciation.... I put 7000 km on my C4S pdk after 19 months and that's my driving... I drive maybe 4 - 5 times a week and i figure if I buy a Ferrari this good and intoxicating I want to drive it more... and worry less about depreciation... so I figure it will be 7000 km. I was put off as some said that high mileages Ferrari tanks like crazy in resale... in general Ferraris are garage queen and that's not me... I don't have 3 ferraris to play with.
    5. Quality and chances of spending more time in the shpo than on the Road...

    What I hope is that if I do buy the California, I won't miss the C4S and will enjoy myself fully... although I love the 458, it's practicality is less... and waiting time is up to 2014... the california will be the perfect first Ferrari...
     
  10. calitalia

    calitalia Formula Junior

    Sep 29, 2009
    536
    #10 calitalia, Jun 30, 2010
    It's the many firsts that make it great but also put me at risks for falling prey to it being the next mondial... it is not an evolution approach but a revolution approach. The Audi R8 and the recent Jag XJ are ground up revolution approach and whether they will be welcomed, only time can tell. My other choice is keep the PDK or the California... the other contestant is R8 V8 or V10... which offers lambo engine tech and carry over with German engineering... I also like the look of the R8 more but it does not offer as much of an experience and exclusivity as a Ferrari... the ownership of a Ferrari is a real experience.
     
  11. calitalia

    calitalia Formula Junior

    Sep 29, 2009
    536
    #11 calitalia, Jun 30, 2010

    Rick, here's also my dilemma, red... a lot said the California is the Ferrari that doesn't look good in red but in grey it looks just like a Maserati. I am thinking about WHITE which is a heresy in some sense albeit interesting. My C4S PDK is in white and I love white but a White Ferrari is an interesting proposition. The worst nightmare would be to own it for 2 weeks and then say "what have I done... why did I pick white....?" Also in resale, I believe a white is probably rather personal but a white with giallo modena yellow caliper and black interior yellow stitchings and yellow seat belts are what It really find exotic. Alternatively, you can't go wrong with Classic Red on Black interior (red stitchings or yellow stitchings) with painted calipers... my C4S pdk is white on black on red belts and red stitchings... always my favourite... a red interior is always... something unsure for me. Overall, I have been thinking and I will use next 4 weeks to see and wait for the idea to settle down to either keep C4S, buy a California (most likely the next best choice) or buy a second hand R8 to address the itch... it will cost the same as the cali if I get a R8 V8 2008... but then that would be a whole different experience... or C4S pdk directly to R8 V10 for a lambo like experience ... for some reason, the gallardo is too cramped for me I am about 6.3.5 and only the Porsche and California seem spacious... the gallardo is not made for anyone > 6.2 I don't think... it's very cramped... when I am thinking... I don't have much choice... when you are already owning one of the most sorted after icons, a 911... you are right up there with only a F or Lambo experience (ok... let's forget the GTR cheap speed, Bugatti or Pagani which I can't afford with my baby plan). OK the California may miss the Supercar look (it's GT), but it is probably the only option. I don't mind a 458 and would love one but I would need a Fiat Abath to go with it.
     
  12. calitalia

    calitalia Formula Junior

    Sep 29, 2009
    536
    #12 calitalia, Jun 30, 2010
    Speed wise, the California is at best a 430 Spider... but would another logical step be the next turbo 911 (911 turbo pdk... who doesn't want that rocket speed experience... in fact, if you get the 911 turbo s pdk, it will blow out the gtr and the 458 I think...)... it looks like I can either wait for the next new 911 turbo (that would be like... um... 2013... ) or just get the California... the next new 911 turbo plan is gonna save a lot though as I don't have to tank with the depreciation... keeping my C4s pdk for another 2 years may lose another 5% when the first 25% I had already taken. OK, some may say, if I have to worry about depreciation, I probably shouldn't be driving a sports car but in the first place, that's why people get Ferrari and P cars... they are the best when it comes to value retention for a reason... it is well known that Aston loses tremendous amount brand new.
     
  13. calitalia

    calitalia Formula Junior

    Sep 29, 2009
    536
    #13 calitalia, Jun 30, 2010
    I better go drive one... it seems like long term Porsche owners like Rick and You both agree that Porsche is laser cutter like and precise German engineering, consistent, reliablebit , durable and fast and rapid... yet a bit bland to drive (I have owned 3 Porsches... )... well no pun intended but I would compare it to the wife. She's always there for you and in a comfort zone. Not much excitement. The Ferrari is like the mistress, it excites you though she may not have the best character personality or temper.

    Ferrari is all about emotions and Porsche is about reliability and precision. Well maybe once crossing over, I will never even go back. However, once I had driven the 911, it always feels like over and over again the best daily driver to me.
     
  14. J. Salmon

    J. Salmon F1 Rookie
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    Aug 27, 2005
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    #14 J. Salmon, Jun 30, 2010
    Coming from someone who has one of the most finicky, maintenance-needy Ferraris made (355) I would say of all Ferraris EVER, the California is the one that would be an absolute hoot and be a true daily driver. The motor is chain driven. The clutches are wet clutches and do not need replacement. So, the typical "major" service of the Ferrari is gone. You'll change the oil more often than the Porsche, but that's about it. The roof is a hard top convertible that will wear vastly better than a soft-top would. The interior is much much much more durable and usable than days of old.

    Will the car depreciate if you put miles on it? Sure. Percentage wise more than a 911? Nope. High mileage Ferraris depreciate, but still probably less than other makes. The reputation comes from a time when Ferraris depreciated very little if left alone. But those days are over - so you might as well enjoy the ride!
     
  15. CatSailor

    CatSailor Karting

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    #15 CatSailor, Jun 30, 2010
    I test drove a new 911 PDK back to back with a 612 F1A, and even the big heavy 612 felt way more exhilarating than the 911! I could go buy a 911 today, but I am continuing my quest for the right F-car.
     
  16. jeff

    jeff Formula 3

    Feb 19, 2001
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    #16 jeff, Jun 30, 2010
    I don't think a Ferrari is for you at this time. You listed 5 Fears. All legitimate and sensible concerns especially for your first Ferrari. But sometimes the purchase of a Ferrari goes against all rational thinking. After you own one it will make sense. I've owned Porsches since 1960. Great cars. I've got one sitting in the garage now. But I can take it or leave it with Porsches. When you drive a Ferrari you will want to sell your soul to the devil to own one.
     
  17. FerrariMC

    FerrariMC Formula Junior

    Mar 2, 2006
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    #17 FerrariMC, Jun 30, 2010
    Calitalia,
    How are you? I see this thread is "hopping" again and you're getting some great advice both for and against purchasing the California. Well, I've already posted, but after reading what you wrote regarding your fears, I just had to say some things quickly. I completely respect what you had to say and they're all legitimate fears, BUT you're talking about Ferraris of OLD regarding the leather/maintenance issues. I understand that Ferraris' WERE much more, how do I say, fragile, then Porsches, BUT the newer Ferraris do NOT have the same maintenance/leather issues plagued by older Ferraris. Now and again, as with ANY car, you'll have a bad one, but for the most part Ferrari has learned from its many years of independability and now builds a solid, more reliable car. Yes, maintenance, both scheduled and unscheduled, may be higher, but it's the "overhead" you pay for the experience of a lifetime!! For us car guys, it doesn't get any better than a Ferrari. Often times, perspective prancing horse buyers get too caught up in the OLD perception of how Ferraris used to be, when the newer cars have totally destroyed that image, IMO. I'm sure there will be plenty that disagree, but as I said, you're purchasing a "dream" and an experience that very few makes can offer. The very fact that you created this thread, already gives me the feeling that you're being sucked in by the prancing horse's allure. LOL Cause honestly, I doubt you had these "feelings" before you purchased your first Porsche!! Have a great week! Thanks and good luck.

    Mark


     
  18. sg69

    sg69 Karting

    Aug 23, 2009
    193
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    #18 sg69, Jun 30, 2010
    Just Do it... I had a lot of the fears you mentioned and also came from the 911, which I loved and didn't want to part with but ended up selling after six months because I hardly ever drove it anymore. The California is a beast and an addicting pleasure to drive! I too was concerned with all the issues that plagued the older models but it seems that most of them are a thing of the past. This car, with the rear seats, is more usable as a DD, than a Mercedes SL, If you don't mind all the attention it draws, that is... It's an awesome experience that you won't regret.

    SG
     
  19. jenniferq

    jenniferq Formula 3

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    #19 jenniferq, Jun 30, 2010
    I love this thread! It makes me so grateful to my husband that he has bestowed the Cali on me so that I can enjoy it with my girls, who now know - and can spot the difference between - the Enzo, 356 convertible (chop top!), 360, 430, etc and also recently enjoyed Ferris Bueller's Day Off and understand why we don't "valet" it anywhere! I only hope he finds his own joy now, since he "thought" he wanted a 911 Turbo...until the Cali. It's a gamechanger, all right.
     
  20. calitalia

    calitalia Formula Junior

    Sep 29, 2009
    536
    #20 calitalia, Jul 1, 2010
    thx all today I went into the showroom, car wasn't there... but I was invited to a test drive on a Bianco Avus on Red demo car...

    It does look like there are many personalizations. If I am doing it, i will consign my 997 4s there and have a Jan production for March delivery... although I was offered one to be produced in Oct/Nov for Jan arrival... which would make it a 09/10...

    The interior has many combos and I am down to the following colours (but undecided on a switch on 100% yet)... I will have to let it settle for a week and see... if I have to do it... i would have to have my deposit down firm and consign my 4S... I was also given a nice copy of the 458 booklet... which looks gorgeous... it is eons > Lambo on looks... but the line is up to 2014... so the salesman is offering a drive on the California up till then to switch to 458 but 2014??? It would be mid cycle already... and god knows what happens in 2014... Europe could have fallen or the Euros could rebound who knows... things change too much too fast too soon these days and who would have thought the Euro could go down to 1.18 and the sterling will come under more pressure...

    Let's give it a week... I am 50/50 now but am worried though a bit that I am buying the California cos I can't buy the 458 now... but then I think they are on different spectrums... one is a GT for more everyday use the other is more hardcore... the California suits me more as I don't really track.

    I am not for the Blue but onto Bianco Avus, Rosso Corsa (there are 2 other reds... Rosso Scuderia too... but gotta look more) and Black most likely metallic... but before I take a test drive, I must get my mind settled I am ready to make the switch.
     
  21. calitalia

    calitalia Formula Junior

    Sep 29, 2009
    536
    #21 calitalia, Jul 1, 2010
    Mark, thanks and you are right and I have to thank you as well as everyone who spent time to give me advices... honestly... I am a first time buyer and this is my first Ferrari and it is certainly not a small sum of money for a car when I could buy a Prius or a Mini to get around town. Coming from owning Porsches which were so good to begin with (best of the world of speed and legacy and reliability), I am just analyzing logically. The Germans are known to be precise and disciplined and that also gives the 911 its rather boring (or evergreen, consistent, evolutionary... depending on how you see it... some say my car looks like an inverted bathtub... some say it is timeless 993 retro... it's personal) and evergreen, rock hard reliability attributes. However, Ferrari is a different creature and I think until I actually own one, I can never know but I do believe that the California honestly is eons beyond 360 and even the 599 or 430 in terms of craftsmanship... ? It is well made in many sense and besides one panel I think 458 share some of the components as well. Although they are not the same, these two models while different both represent new age Ferraris. I know there are many choices and I had played and toyed with the idea of R8 but suspect that the AUDI will be more of a mistake moving from Porsche... If anything, Ferrari is the real experience for a lifetime.
     
  22. calitalia

    calitalia Formula Junior

    Sep 29, 2009
    536
    #22 calitalia, Jul 1, 2010
    SG, thank you. Excuse my ignorance... I hope I am not being overly repetitive with my concerns but knowing that you also came from the 911 (I came from a 987s then to a 997 4s... jez... I owned both for about 2 years, honestly, ZERO PROBLEM... I had another few cars before Mercedes and the Mercedes had more problems be it the JEEP or the SLK... just Mercedes isn't so reliable these days...), I want to say thank you. I worry about missing the nimbleness and the speed but I don't think it's much an issue. The 911 was too good (though more bland to drive and it's like very precise and very reliable... it has ZERO problem so far) so anything else would seem a bit... um... worrisome given that I had always been a Porsche guy. Thanks to all... I hope I am not being too troublesome but yes, the whole journey to owning a Ferrari is a lot more involving than Porsche. Porsche is a no brainer and I know after owning the California, I may go back and if finances allow the 911 is always one to have in the stable but I am all excited thinking about owning a Ferrari... and I suspect after the first California which I will definitely forget about babying it and driving it all out (I only have this and mostly my daily driver so pls guys don't laugh so I plan to take it to work 5 days a week and driving 6-7 days a week... maybe too much but I am seeing at least 5000-6000 km per year making it 12,000 km in 2 years and that's a lot for a F car but certainly not a P car)... well I will have to have a 2011 jan prod and mar delivery... but I did see something funny... it looks like 2011 we shall see the new 612 and 2012 the new 599 and 2013 a M version modificato of the California... I couldn't believe how soon they start to change the model... so it's like I buy it now and 2 years' time they will change it... can someone enlighten that part?
     
  23. dbyt

    dbyt Rookie

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    #23 dbyt, Jul 1, 2010
    + 1!
     
  24. calitalia

    calitalia Formula Junior

    Sep 29, 2009
    536
    #24 calitalia, Jul 2, 2010
  25. MalibuGuy

    MalibuGuy F1 Veteran

    Sep 18, 2007
    5,892
    #25 MalibuGuy, Jul 2, 2010
    I think the fears you list about reliability and maintenance are understandable since you've no experience with Ferrari ownership. I recall telling a group of friends at dinner one night that I had ordered a 360. All of them were thrilled for me for a few seconds and then they began citing all the negatives much as you have done. But none of them ever owned one.

    I think all the current models should be considered reliable and livable in terms of ownership costs. Once you are past the warranty period then things get interesting. But you still have the option to buy an extended warranty.

    I think you should test drive the Cali and let that guide your decision making more than the spectre of the other fears.
     
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