Help! Purchase questions 89 328 GTS

I have been reading and visiting Ferrari of Washington trying to learn as much as I can and now I think I am ready!
The car in question is at Continental Auto Sports in IL, they are authorized Ferrari dealer. Anyone have any info on the dealer? Next, the car is a '89 328 GTS with 32k miles, they are asking $45,900. They say the major is being performed and everything is in good working order. They told me the odometer was replaced, so they are not sure how many true miles are on the car, does this sound fishy?? The car is a US spec car, VIN ZFFXA20A2K0082916. They said the tires are not matching front and back and they will resolve this. No paint chips or scuffs on the wheels, all tools and records available.
Well, I hate to ask, but why have a chat room if I can't?? What do you guys think of the car?? Anything I need to ask about?? I am happy that it is an '89, so it has ABS, not that I plan on driving in the rain or snow!!
Thanks for the help!!

Robert

 

Price seems a little on the low side for an '89 GTS, attributed to the TMU status. I would have a PPI done or perhaps even take a plane ride out out there to see the physical condition of the car. You never know on a TMU car what you'll find. I did a Carfax on the car, it comes up clean except on 11/09/04 it was exempted from mileage, thus the TMU. Last reported mileage was 1/22/98 with 13,471 miles.

 

Ferrari instruments aren't super reliable, so I'd be inclined to believe the speedo failed at some point. When you buy any used car, the dealer has to provide an odometer disclosure statement (not sure if this is true in every state, but in my experience it has been). That will either have "uncertain" or a number. If it is uncertain, that's one reason the price is so reasonable. I think the dealer is telling you they're going indicate the "we have no clue" option on the paperwork.

No paint chips = resprayed car. You might want confirm that this was the usual respray to correct stone chips. There's a 328 for sale in Missouri with 265 miles on it -- and a couple of stone chips. Now, 32K miles...

Carfax might help clear some of this up. The other thing would be to see high res pics of underneath and the interior. I lived in Chicago, and the weather is very car-hostile. A 308 I considered there was kind of "crusty" underneath. Take a good look. If the car has been stored it could be perfectly fine.

 

You didn't mention the color which does affect the price as well. Overall, it sounds fine for a recently serviced driver, but a PPI would certainly be in order. A good mechanic should be able to tell if it was well cared for and roughly how many miles it's actually traveled.

Dave

 

Thanks for the replies!! The car is Rossa Corsa with tan interior. The dealership is a Ferrari dealership and they just got the car on Saturday, they are running it thru there check. The salesmen said there is a ding near the driver door handle and a few other small blemishes.
They do not have to give verified mileage in IL, apparently. They said major was done including belts 09/04.
I will find out more tomorrow.

Again thanks for the knowledge! Oh, another question. I read in one of the posts that you have to raise the rpm's after start up to activate the altenator?? I believe they said the battery went dead because of this.
Sooooo many little things to know!!!!

Robert

 

Didnt they originally say they were doing the major? If the belts were done in 04 then then dont need doing again right now.

This makes me nervous, I dont mind a car with Flaws, what I do not trust however is when a dealer keeps changing the story. If this is happening - be suspicious...

My 328 had a new odo at 3K miles, there are known for it...

 

hello,

continental autosports in hinsdale, illinois have an outstanding reputation on f-chat. i have visited their dealership before and they have a state of the art facility and have been selling ferraris for over 30 years. the car seems priced correctly with the replaced odometer.

try the thread for continantal autosports here or in the chicago region. i had similar questions and got a lot of info there.

regards

joe

 

Thanks for all the feed back everybody!!! I am going to test drive the 328 at Ferrari of Washington on thursday. I went and took a good look at the car today and other than some rock chips on the hood the car seems to be a gem. I really did not want black/red, but I trust the car!
I am also going to have my follow up conversation with Continental know that they have had an extra day to look the car over. I get the sense that a car with a replaced odometer will always get less in re-sale and the worry about actual miles. One thing that concerned me was the statement by Continental that they didn't have to provide true miles!! Thats a federal law, not an IL law! Something to the effect that no one can ever be 100% sure, true, but!!
The 328 seems to be very mechanic freindly and most fixes could be done by a skilled mechanic. Oil changes look like something I can handle and so forth.
Thanks again guys!! Any other feed back on the 328??

Robert

 

$45,900 for a 1989 red/tan with recent service car is a great price and if they would take an offer and you could get this car for 43k I think I would take it and get what you want and not worry about the resale. IMO this car will have a better resale then a black/red car.

 

I'm with Mark, the price on the red car at Continental is very good, especially if it has a recent major. That price reflects the fact that they can't verify the milege. I WOULD get a PPI from a second party, just to get an idea of the true condition of the car.

 

Black/red is pretty rare, but it seems when they do show up they stay for sale a long time. The red interiors of 328's scream RED. If it's not what you want, be patient, the right car will come along. Like others, I think if the condition on the 89 checks out, it's priced right and you could drive it ton with no worries.

Dave

 

Robert - You have a PM.

 

I believe it's due to age. If a car is 10 (?) years old or older, a dealer can either affirm that the mileage is actual, or effectively say "no comment". I bought my 328 out of NC and the dealer affirmed the mileage because they knew the history of the car. Obviously there's less risk in simply saying "we don't know".

328's are simple compared to modern cars. But parts for any Ferrari are expensive, as you know. Mine has been a cherry so far.

Regarding the black/red car, I think the 328 looks best in black, but the comments regarding the "lipstick" red interior are true. That car has been on the market for a while. It's too startling for most people and generally not a desirable interior color for a 328.

Sounds like you're doing you're homework. Be patient and good luck!

 

I have driven this car a couple of times. i would have bought it if it was red. it is very tight and has a nice bark to the engine, which it should because they just spent 10k on it. it has been sitting there for a long time and you should be able to negotiaate a good price. the interior has been dyed. i think it was originally tan. if you like black, i would buy that car.

 

You are correct, the interior has been dyed! Anthony, scuderiaNoVa, said the ame thing! I would have never caught this. I am leaning more towards the rossa red car at continental auto sports in IL. Its an 89 with the major completed in 09/04. Sooooo the search continues.
Thanks everybody for the help!!!

Robert

 

don't buy one until you look at several and only buy the one you have no question in your mind about. there are new ones coming for sale every day. i had a deposit and a ppi set up for one car and i bought another. don't stop looking until the money is transferred.

 

Thanks wetpet! I went out and drove the black/red 328 at FOW today and the car went into "drive moderate" mode!! The red light to the left on the dash came on and the car had significant power loss! I felt very bad for Bob the sales guy, he has been great! Now I am worried about this car for sure! The major was just performed in September, what the heck! Anyway, they will look at the car this afternoon and try to figure out what is up! This car is also a consignment car, so there is a little extra risk, I guess.
My wife loved the color, her office is about 2 miles from FOW, so we drove by. I will no more later, thanks again everyone!!!!


Robert

 

Tough break, Robert (no pun intended). It'd still be nice to take it out again after they look it over so that you could at least get a better feel for the car and 328s in general. If this car isn't "the one" at least it can provide you with some research data to compare with the next prospect. Good luck!

AP

 

Agreed. It takes a while to learn what a well-behaved 328 feels like (and sounds like). You might want to drive the other one now for a comparison. There are plenty of red 328s around.

I wouldn't get hung up on ABS versus non-ABS. Find a really well-maintained car, at a reasonable price and -- this will sound like heresy as you're about to buy an exotic 'dream car', but: get something that you could resell without a lot of drama if you decided later that a 328 wasn't your kind of car.

 

Talking about drama. I wonder if black/red is a wise choice? My wife really liked it and I like it, I just don't want to spend 9 months trying to sell the car 4 or 5 years from now. Is that a dumb reason to wait for a red one? This car has been sitting there at FOW since Oct/Nov and he doesn't seem to want to go below $41k. He has changed out the interior, shouldn't this diminish the value, somewhat???
Thanks for all the feedback!!!!!

Robert

 

Well, you answered your own question.

FWIW, mine's black metallic/tan and it sold quickly the last two times it was up for sale. Go with black, if you like it, but it will be more saleable with a tan or cream interior. It's dramatic and tasteful. Red is always a safe choice on a Ferrari, although IMO it doesn't work quite as well on the 328 as on the 308.

 

if you got him down to 41k you are doing very well only a month ago it was 48k. 41k for that car is a very good price. the owner just put 10k into it.

 

Ferrari of Washington is great and my 2 ferraris are serviced there.

There are plenty of GTS's out there- get a copy of Ferrari Market Letter.

The 2 cars you describe sound less than perfect and are too cheap- meaning there may be some serious money (mechanically or cosmetically) you need to put into it. Do yourself a favor- buy the best you can afford. A non '89 in perfect shape should be about $50K. For what you want to do with the car, there is an uneccessary premium on 89s. There just isnt that much price difference between a ratty one and a great one. But it takes a ton of money to fix up a ratty one.

Dan

 

I purchased my 328 from Continental in 2004 and dealt with Lonny Tsang for phone conversations and Scott Rothermel for the actual sale, Both people were great to deal with. My car was as described.

Dave W

 

The key to a quick sale on any car is to set your expectations. If you're a dealer and have put a lot of work into the car, you have to wait for the "right" buyer to get your money back out of it.

Any car with complete service records is going to do better than one without.

But if you don't need to get top dollar, you can set a reasonable asking price and get a pretty quick sale. It's a matter of what your time is worth to you. Are you willing to wait to get an extra 5-10% on the sale?

If you get a car that isn't in top condition, you'll be looking at a lower resale price ... which might open the car up to more potential buyers. (Both those looking for a bargain and those willing to recondition it themselves.) A car in concours condition will only sell to someone willing to pay the extra to have that condition already done for them.

Personally, I prefer the 328 in black (although I have a tan interior). But that's me. (On Alfas, we used to say that the red ones come factory equipped with a police car in the rear view mirror. ) If the interior has been changed once, it shouldn't much hurt resale to change it again.

But I would suggest the best approach to enjoying ownership would be to make sure the car is well sorted out mechanically -- or get one that will be discounted for the work you'll have done after the sale.

Once the car is in good mechanical shape, drive the heck out of it, and you won't ever want to sell it.
Then resale isn't an issue.

Specific details: The ABS systems of the late '80s weren't the greatest. If you know how to modulate the brakes yourself, the ABS isn't that much of a plus. (The suspension improvements after late '88 might be, though, so the '89s do resell at a higher average price.) The 328 practically begs you to heel/toe it, so again, ABS may be relatively moot. (And forget trying to drive it in heavy boots. You need soles soft enough for feedback and narrow enough to fit.)

And don't be too quick to count out driving in the rain. Properly aligned, with good tires, the 328 handles in the wet just fine. (And the DC metro forecasts are no help -- they seem to forecast t-storms every day.)

The Marelli ignition computers are getting long in the tooth. Check whether the vacuum advance still works. It will still run without it, but with more throttle hesitation. (For some strange reason, the vacuum sensor is inside the computer box.)

The wiring can be problematic. Check for brown or black marks on the white plastic connectors around the relay board. Some of those connectors carry more current than they're properly rated for. (One of the few design issues on the 328s.)

One minor point: If you're going to have the car serviced at FoW, getting one that their shop already knows might save a few dollars off the first service. A shop will need more time to check out a car they don't know.