News

HELP/w Sparco Torino 2 in 308QV

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by enjoythemusic, Apr 3, 2004.

  1. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

    Apr 20, 2002
    10,675
    Worldwide
    Full Name:
    Steven
    Hi Everyone,

    Spoke with a Sparco rep and he said there would need to have some basic changes to the seat for mounting this in the car. Checked the archives and found virtually no info.

    Yes i realize the 308QV is NOT a race car in modern terms. Yes i realize the whole harness situation and will not do that for the time being and use the standard seat belt (though may just get http://www.sparco-usa.com/pharness_tuning.asp?id=251). As for why, after some LONG and hard thinking about redoing the whole interior because i hated the condition of the seats -- while affordable on my part -- it would still leave me with seats i frankly do not like in general. As the 308 here has std tan with black highlights interior, was planning to go all black Sparco Torino 2.

    Anyone have experience with the Torino 2 in general? i desire adjustable back and nice visuals and feel the Torino 2 the most fitting. Cost is not really a factor, keeping me IN the seat during twisties, good looks, and some comfort are (in THAT order). i tend to sit more reclined than most and also like to adjust the seat from front to back, so non-reclining seats that are not on a moving assembly are a no go.

    Comments? Advice? ALL help is ALWAYS appreciated.

    PS: the RECARO Speed seats with 4-point harness also look intersting BUT the Sparco has Memory Foam that may be more comfotable???
     
  2. To remove this ad click here.

  3. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

    Apr 20, 2002
    10,675
    Worldwide
    Full Name:
    Steven
  4. 348 Turbo

    348 Turbo Formula 3

    Jul 17, 2002
    1,837
    Steve,
    I've seen pics of the Torino 2. They look PERFECT for your car, (IMHO). I think Norwoods has placed some of these in their customers' cars per their request. I understand they look great. You can call Mike at Norwoods for his opinions. Post pics when you're done please.
    J
     
  5. rexrcr

    rexrcr Formula 3

    Nov 27, 2002
    1,572
    Kalamazoo, MI
    Full Name:
    Rob Schermerhorn
    My recommendation is work with a compentent race shop or tuner who's aware of the fact that you're altering The primary safety system in the car.

    I've always loved Recaro, and beleive they're the leader in comfort, and others, like Sparco, have followed suit. I've one Recaro that's been bolted into four different cars over 14 years.

    Custom brackets in Ferrari chassis are typically straightforward for the professional, and many times you can retain the OE sliders and fab an adapter. This is especially true for aftermarket seats which bolt from the bottom.

    Other than Recaro, my current favorite is the Cobra Misano, available from www.subesports.com.

    Best regards,

    Rob Schermerhorn
     
  6. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Sep 25, 2002
    11,470
    MO
    Personally, I like the look of the Milano Leather (tan) By looking at the sizeing information, they look to be about the same size as the ones you are looking at.

    Also, of you plan on upgrading the interior, I suggest the following:

    1. Valence will be coming out a with a line of CF interior parts for 328s. I am sure some of the trim will also fit the 308.

    2. If your seats are what look 'sh!ty' then i suggest you remove them and have them taken a a compentant leather shop. I had mine redyed for 300 and now they look brand new.

    3. Enjoy the music :)
     
  7. To remove this ad click here.

  8. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Sep 25, 2002
    11,470
    MO
    PS please keep us up to date on how and what you do. I am really interested in upgrading my seats as well.
     
  9. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

    Apr 20, 2002
    10,675
    Worldwide
    Full Name:
    Steven
    Auraraptor, Rex and Jeff,

    MANY thanks for your replies. Time has passed and MUCH research has been done...

    The seats and interior has already been dyed. The rest of the car looks good, but the seats have creases/etc and frankly i just hate the stock seats in general. Have been thinking of going Xtreme... The reason is to LOWER the weight. Am losing about 15 lbs per corner due to suspension upgrades, have found ways to lose a few pounds elsewhere, and now i am thinking seats.

    The Milano Leather weights in at a staggering 44.5 lbs! WAY too heavy!!!! The non-leather Milano is 37 lbs, still too heavy IMHO. The Sparco Pro 2000/Evo/etc in Fiberglass is about 17 lbs. Hmmmmmmm...

    MANY folks make custom mounting brackets for the seats so that is easy to send the specs to a proper fabricator and i may be able to do away with the added weight/safety problem of the front/rear sliding mechanism.

    Am i being Xtreme, you bet! But this lowers the car's weight another 40 lbs total by comparison between Sparco seats and am not sure what the stock 308 seats weight in at, but i bet they are around +45lbs. DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT THE STOCKS SEATS WEIGH? And before someone chimes in, getting in and out of car is not an issue per se because my body/health is that of a beach volleyball player and i weigh a mere 165-170 lbs at 5' 11".

    FULLY agree safety is an issue and WILL have the job done CORRECTLY and use those "ever so fun" (ha!) three car body connection, four-way seat belts as i prefer hard twisties over straight line speed. In fact this should make the car SAFER and keep me IN the seat and not sliding about as one finds with the sock seats.

    In the end EVERYTHING will be reversible back to stock (but why go BACKWARDS?). SAFETY FIRST and these new seats will provide better support during driving... far beyond the stock units.


    MY GOAL:

    i'd like to see this 1985 Euro 308QV weigh in WET at around 2700 lbs or so (stock is around 3k lbs wet). HP/Torque to weight ratio is KEY. Look at the new Lotus as but one of many examples. With the Euro 308QV, have noticed a definite difference between near full gas and close to empty tank and that constitutes 180 lbs (approx. 18 gallons of petrol). As i am the ONLY driver and the Sparco Pro 2000/Evo/etc seat can accept various cushions, this may be the best of both worlds for low weight/fit/comfort per se. Like anything, it is about compromise at times. The 40 lbs weight savings with the Pro 2000/Evo/etc over the Sparco Milano/Torino or Recaro counterpart is simply too seductive to ignore.

    And yes, this is overkill though it is the way i am. Did the same "overkill" thing during the 60k major per se with MUCH work on her so may as well continue the Love Vibe.

    Comments? Advice? And yes, i WILL post pics once this new project gets underway. It should actually be VERY simple to mount ANY Sparco/Recaro seat as all i will need to do is (basically) remove stock seat and seat belt, attach appropriate hardware to new seat, mount new seat belts and then seats to 308.

    This really is not rocket science and those of you who hate their stock seats will be HAPPY to learn it is CHEAPER to get new seats than have your stock seats redone PLUS you now have something with more appropriate support. Also, once you buy the seat mounting adapter you have MANY seat choices to explore so perhaps the Torino for steet/daily driving, then the Pro 2000 for track days :)
     
  10. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

    Apr 20, 2002
    10,675
    Worldwide
    Full Name:
    Steven


    Hmm, and it weights only 23 lbs. AND they make custom mounts for the 308... The plot thickens! DAMN you Rexrcr :)
     
  11. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

    Apr 20, 2002
    10,675
    Worldwide
    Full Name:
    Steven
    MANY thanks for the PM's and e-mails today folks. Think we have it nailed down BUT PLEASE KEEP SENDING ME ADVICE!!! Seems the bolt-in seat width of aftermarket is perfect while length is a touch different but VERY easy to deal with. Just drill different holes, so a fast 20 minute mod.

    Mr. Rexrcr is a bad, EVIL man!!! BAD BAD BAD!!! Never heard of Cobra and in good fashion he made a wonderful suggestion. The Cobra Maisano in black leather weighs in at 25 lbs. with Carbon Fiber composite shell for the backrest. A good 'tween weight and also received e-mail that going TRUE race seats in the 308 is not easy as the HEIGHT is problematic. So like anything for both street and racing use, there are trade-offs and the Cobra Maisano may be the best effort as Sparco's 44 lbs. leather alternative is much too heavy!

    Another GREAT suggestion via e-mail was going with true four-way harness by adding a steel bar behind the seats. This is easily accomplished by removing both passenger and driver shoulder harnesses and attaching a single, rectangular bar. Simply drill holes in the bar accordingly for the mount and shoulder straps while using stock bolts for seat belt lap restraints. Am also guessing the added steel bar should add some body rigidity, but this is not really the point of this exercise, but perhaps an added slight bonus in rigidity (good) since it WILL add weight (bad).

    Makes sense? Suggestions? Comments? Pics of the seats in leather are below. ALL help is ALWAYS apprecaited!!!!!

    So who makes the best 4-way seat belt harness in black? OMP? Sparco? Schoth?
     
  12. To remove this ad click here.

  13. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Sep 25, 2002
    11,470
    MO
    Enjoy/Steven, if you go with the Corbra tell me what you do to install the seats. I am interested in them as well. I am thinking of getting a leather shop to replace the centeral portions with a more ferrari esc tan with black strips in the daytona vein.

    One other thing, do you know of the top of the backrest is adjustable in any of the aftermarket seats? I am talking about the upper back portion. I like to sit down with the back at an angle when I drive, but then the head rest is useless. Luckly BMW has an adjustable upper portion that conforms to my back postion so I can sit semi reclined. It *appears* milanos has this adjustment, but I am not sure, and was wondering if your research told you the answer.
     
  14. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

    Apr 20, 2002
    10,675
    Worldwide
    Full Name:
    Steven
    Auraraptor,

    i think you are referring to a Lumbar control. Few have it, and there is an air pump version sold separately by Sparco that should fit ANY seat (see http://www.sparco-usa.com/pseats_acc.asp?id=366 ). Is this the type of adjustment you are referring to? If you REALLY get creative, you COULD have the bladder section glued INSIDE the seat behind the leather in EXACTLY the position you desire with the tube coming out the side of the seat discretely and have the pump part placed next to the seat.
     
  15. need4speed

    need4speed Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2003
    1,597
    Pacific Palisades
    I don't believe Auraraptor is referring to a lumbar adjustment. He's actually describing having the back rest in 2 parts so that you can recline the lumbar region but have your upper back more upright. Very few seats have this feature. Actually, I can't think of any.

    Correct me if I'm wrong Auraraptor.
     
  16. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Sep 25, 2002
    11,470
    MO
    #13 Auraraptor, Apr 5, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Yup needforspeed that is the one! Thank you I was not aware of what it is termed. Yes I absolutely love it!

    My BMW has this feature, as well as my Rangerover (same basic seat since the E38 was the basis of the inteiror in the Rover)

    According to the sparco seating chart, it implies a high G value. (sparco seating chart pdf: http://www.sparco-usa.com/Seat_Dim_Guide.pdf)
    Note that the Milanos do not have a specified G value.


    In the picture below, the green region acts like the pivot for the top region.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  17. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

    Apr 20, 2002
    10,675
    Worldwide
    Full Name:
    Steven
    Auraraptor,

    No one makes that for "race/sport" that i know of. Naturally you could have a totally custom back made and mounted to the bottom seat part of the Cobra. ANYTHING is possible given enough funds...
     
  18. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
    11,651
    The twilight zone
    Full Name:
    The Butcher
    Very nice seats!!!...I need to be strong....I won't order new seats...I must be strong...I won't order.........
     
  19. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Sep 25, 2002
    11,470
    MO
    Just wondering on a tangent, are 308 and 328 seat mounts the same? They sell mounts that bolt to 308 OEM holes and such but not 328. If they are the same then that makes it easy.

    PS Steven are you sure they fit? They look kinda wide at 20.5 inches. Slag measured the interior room in the 328 and it looked to be about 18 on the floor and 20 max if u bolt about 1 to 2 inches about the floor. Note that the roof height was a total of 35. So then fitting will be hard since the seat is 34" high I believe...

    PS if they do fit and I can bolt them no prob. i am definately buying a set and redoing the leather in tan with daytona stripes..
     
  20. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

    Apr 20, 2002
    10,675
    Worldwide
    Full Name:
    Steven
    Mike, and the reason not to order is????? A cryptic message does us all NO good :( Share your knowledge.


    Auraraptor: not SURE they will fit, will need to take measurements once when the 308 comes home. If it is close, i can drive to a dealer and see the deal.
     
  21. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Sep 25, 2002
    11,470
    MO
    Steven, he already has a set of 348 seats with custom rails in his 308Turbo if I recall...:)
     
  22. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

    Apr 20, 2002
    10,675
    Worldwide
    Full Name:
    Steven
    i want to hear from him DIRECTLY! Nothing pisses me off more than CRYPTIC messages with no REAL explanation. And if he has these seats, dare we ask what 348 seats with custom rails cost? And how could we choose the color of the seats of they are used?

    NOT looking to sound like a a'hole here, but would like him to tell us WHY NOT new and his angle and what experience he has instead of just some cryptic message without anything to back it up.

    AND ROB, THIS IS WHY IF FERRARI CHAT HAD A DISCUSSION BOARD WE COULD ALL BE BETTER OFF!!!!!!!!
     
  23. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

    Apr 20, 2002
    10,675
    Worldwide
    Full Name:
    Steven
    FYI: The Sparco Torrino/Milano is 19.13" while the Corba is 15" at bottom and 20.5" wide at top where it expands outward.

    The Milano/Torino is 35.43" high while the Cobra is 34" high.
     
  24. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
    11,651
    The twilight zone
    Full Name:
    The Butcher
    Sorry, no cryptic intent. The reason is very simple, I believe that my wife will literally kill me if I spend any more money on the car. Ferrari is the "F" word in our house. I love those seats and were it not for my wife, they would already be on order. Maybe next year. I can’t really blame her I guess.

    I do have 348 seats in the car now and I like them, but they are very heavy. If I recall, I paid $600 on ebay a couple years ago. I used the 348 rails that came with them and them made adapters from ¼ aluminum.
     
  25. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

    Apr 20, 2002
    10,675
    Worldwide
    Full Name:
    Steven
    Ahhhhh ok, now THAT explains it. A most humble thanks my friend. i felt you were trying to tell ME to not buy new seats because you knew of a problem or ???? And yes, stock 308 seats are VERY heavy and will know the EXACT weight when they are EL Gono for MUCH better ones.

    (Said in good humor my friend) And by the way, what is this thing you refer to as "wife?" Have heard about them, yet very few long-term positive effects/comments. Seems vintage pre-owned "wife" things are of little to no value from my web research. It appears new models with little age are best, yet they, too, can be VERY expensive and this other thing referred to as "divorce" can be extremely painful... worse then three root canals i read!


    (Seriously) PS: two of my close friends are going through divorce right now. Seems every year another one of my friends go through this and have been thoroughly convinced marriage is not the key to happiness FOR ME. My parents are VERY happily married for well over 45 years and they are AMAZING people. Alas, can not convince myself to ever say those two words in front of Elvis in Vegas. This IS NOT a slam against marriage and truly wish all married people here a long and happy marriage, yet for me... no thanks. Perhaps i am too much of a "free spirit?"
     

Share This Page