Help!

I would fill back up w/ regular fuel and keep it out of high rpms, just burn thru the tank as easy as possible.

 

If it was 100 octane unleaded I don't think it would cause a problem in a 360 (guessing from your user-id that you have a 360), and the reason for your warning light for overheating cats may lie elsewhere.

 

Should he try to top off with ethanol free 89? If so there is a web site that tells where all the stations are that have it.

 

The 100 octane fuel will not cause any problems the overheating catalyst lights coming on.
Are the catalysts very hot, glowing red? When do the lights come on? You need to diagnose the problem first.
The control units that control the function of these light are prone to failure and cause false lights all the time.

 

As Brian said, the fuel isn't the problem. 360s are prone to this problem. A more detailed analysis is required.

 

100LL is low lead.
Congradulations, you have just killed your cats.

 

It is not the octane rating but the lead in the avgas that is your problem. You have probably damaged the cat converters as the lead will interfere with the metallo compounds. In addition you may also have issues with the lamda (O2) sensors in the exhaust. I would drain it and not run it with the avgas. JMO....YMMV

 

Ummm. welcome...that was hugely bad advice. I'm also guessing the Owners Manuals were not included in your deal?

These guys here are the best.

Ferraris don't need special fuel.
The alcohol does cause all kinds of issues, so you can avoid that, but get a drum from Sunoco or something.

Don't go crazy....

 

First step of the detailed analysis should be to put a scan tool on it. See if there are any codes (do not erase them yet) and also you can check RH and LH O2 sensors upstream and downstream (to see how the cats are doing).

 

Send the bill to the dealer that gave you the advice.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Why? They (with almost certainty) did not tell him to put leaded fuel in the car. It should be obvious to anyone not to put leaded fuel in. Nothing wrong with putting 100 octane in the car, but it doesn't really buy much on a stock car... An unfortunate mistake by the owner. Hopefully, minimal damage - take it to a reputable Ferrari shop.

 

This.

Mike

 

One Hundred Octane LL (Low Lead) aviation fuel is "low lead" only when compared to the previous formulation of 100 octane avgas. The old stuff had huge amounts of lead and the new "low lead" only has slightly less lead, but it certainly has plenty enough lead to ruin your cats.

I recommend you read your owners manual and follow the recommendations published there when it comes to fluids and that includes gasoline.

 

Breck, Thank you for filling in your information. So many first time posters don't. It's refreshing.

The 100 octane fuel may have trashed your cats as above.

As far as the red glowing cats... that's "usually" from the coil packs not working, so the fuel in the cylinders is not burned off and makes it to the exhaust... where it then is happy to burn off. This raises the temps in the cats and trashes them if the lead doesn't. Coils aren't expensive.. cats are. I'd find which coils don't work well and replace those. You could dilute the gas in there with regular auto fuel or drain the tank.

Oh and dealer was an idiot.

 

If no cats red/hot when checked with IR gun, could be the cat temp ecus (vesicovini boxes).

 

As others have said, the lead content in the 100LL is bad for the cats.

That said, there may be a chance you got lucky and they survived. If it were my car, I would drain the tank, re-fill with high quality 90-93 octane (NO ETHANOL), clear the codes/CEL, and start the car and take it on a gentle drive and see how it does --- just keep a close watch on everything and shut her down right away if any CELs or temp spikes show up.

If the cats are already shot, what have you got to lose ? If you find out the car behaves normally, you've saved yourself a real service hassle & repair expense.

(and, oh yeah, either way --- no matter how it works out --- go back to the Dealer / Salesman, who gave you the stupid-ass advice, and kick him square in the nuts ! )

EDIT --- did not see your last post above, looks like you've already done similar to my suggestion. Good Luck

 

Here is some very good info I found on the internet:


AV Gas is lighter than racing gasoline thus more fuel/larger jetting is required.

AV Gas has a MOR (motor octane rating) of 96, R+M/2 rating of 100, and ROM (Research Octane Rating) of 106
Shelf life is NOT better. The reason pump gas won't last as long is because street gas has extremely lightend hydrocarbons to help your car start and idle. Racing Gasoline does not have these light end hydrocarbons needed for idle and starting, hence the reason race motors start and idle poorly.

Av Gas is NOT designed for low RPM motors. AV Gas is designed to not detonate/preignite causing detination. This would be the same design as race fuel. If you compare the "distillation curve" of AV Gas to Race Gas, you will find they are almost identical. The "distillation curve" controls the speed of burn across the combustion chamber.

The LEAD (TEL) added to AV Gas is to increase the octane rating only. All heads these days have harden valve seats. There is no need for lubrication of the valve seats. All engines have come with harden seats since the late 60's.

AV Gas is not formulated for High Altitude. and will have very little, if not any performance differences vs racing gasoline. On the other hand, commercial grade fuels (87, 89, 92) will definitely enhance your performance due to the commercial fuel being oxygenated. The Oxygen enhancers added to commercial fuel is only for California Smog laws.

Advancing timing on your motor will definitely help with AV Gas and Race Gas due to its slow burn characteristics. On the other hand, be careful if your running commercial grade gasoline, more timing can cause detonation/preignition quit quickly.

Remember this...OCTANE is a measure of a fuels ability to resist detonation/preignition. The higher the Octane number, the slower the fuel burns. Technically speaking 87 Octane fuel will develop more power than 118 Octane fuel. With this said, you should see gains in throttle response and HP by mixing commercial fuel and AV Gas/Race Gas. You now have some light end Hydrocarbons for throttle response and heavy hydrocarbons/TEL for detonation resistance.

In Phoenix and other "boiling" spots over 100F, you should take special care of your AV Gas/Race Gas. The light end Hydrcarbons of commercial fuel start at approximately -40F. AV Gas/Race Gas starta at around 100F. So even performance gasoline looses its ideal performance. You must store your fuel in an enclosed room, not a trailer. Garages with attics or roof vents are the best. I have known drag racers who actually store there fuel in there house and in there motorhome on the trip to races. Also, keep the drums (5, 16, 30, 54 gallon) off the cement floor, preferably on a couple pieces of 2x4's. This keeps less condensation of water entering the drum. You can even go as far as turning your drum upside down so the Bungs are sealed not only by the gasket, but also by the actual fuel preventing air from entering the drum. Drums breath on a daily basis as the temp rises and falls. As they breath, air enters the drum with a minute amount of moisture. No Bueno. Always sweep the underside of the top of the drum with your finger looking for rust every time you open your drum.

High Altitude .... The reason AV Gas has a narrow distillation curve (100F to 210F avg vs -40F to 360F commercial fuel) is to rid the possibility of vapor lock in the fuel lines. AV Gas is less dense than other fuels because of the hydrocarbons used. AV Gas has no real need for throttle response, acceleration, etc. And you actually need less Octane as you climb in altitude, hence 85 octane commercial gas in some mountainous areas.

Source:

My experience comes from 7 years as the western states representative for 76 Race Fuel, Unocals 40 hours Advanced Products course, Working personally with Tim Wusz (senior performance products Rep for Unocal, Tim was responsible for Unocals race fuel development for 30+ years). I have also met and discussed fuels/motors with just about every engine builder in every facet of racing in the western United States. I also conducted Educational Seminars at the Fred L. Hartley Institute in Brea in which we would invite Engine Builders for a tour of Unocals testing facilities and do live octane tests on any gasoline they would choose to bring to the seminar. Included in the training we would demonstrate live tests how Distillation curve, Reid Vapor Pressure, Specific Gravity, Octane Rating, F;ashpoint, etc are conducted and the importance of these numbers. Some of you will remember me from contingency with my 76 Racing Gasoline hospitality trailer in the 1990's.

 

Reading thru the internet, it looks like an O2 sensor can be damaged as quick as 2 hours when using Leaded fuel, or as long as 100 hours

The better the air fuel ratio, the longer they last, when using leaded fuel.
Also the design of the O2 sensor affects its life span, when subjected to lead.

A sluggish or dead oxygen sensor typically causes the engine to run rich, and will increase CO levels in the exhaust.

Converter Monitor

On 1996 and newer vehicles that have OnBoard Diagnostics II (OBDII), there is a "catalyst monitor" that keeps an eye on the operating efficiency of the converter. A second oxygen sensor is mounted "downstream" or behind the converter to compare oxygen levels in the exhaust before and after the converter.

Under normal operating conditions, the downstream O2 sensor should have little switching activity. But if the rate at which the downstream O2 sensor is switching starts to increase, it tells the OBDII system converter efficiency is dropping and there's a potential emissions problem. If the problem may cause emissions to exceed 1.5 times the federal limit, the Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL) will come on and the PCM will log a diagnostic trouble code for "catalyst is below threshold efficiency" (P0420, P0421, P0422, P0430, P0431 or P0432). The bottom line here is you have a bad converter -- unless the problem is something else like a bad oxygen sensor or open fuel feedback control loop.

If you have a dual trace digital storage oscilloscope (DSO) and want to confirm the diagnosis, you can hook your scope up to the upstream and downstream O2 sensors to compare their switching activity. If the downstream O2 sensor activity mirrors the upstream O2 sensor, the converter is dead and needs to be replaced.

You can also confirm a bad converter by comparing levels of CO and HC in the exhaust fore and aft of the converter. If you see little or no reduction in HC and CO levels, the converter has reached the end of the road and needs to be replaced.

 

You can use the Ferrari SD2 tester to watch the operation of the oxygen sensors. It has data acquistion and will graph the voltage just like a scope. This will tell you if the sensors and the cats are working. The ODB II will also log catalytic converter efficiency faults if the cats are bad.