Here's a pic of me pulling the engine out of my 612 yesterday! | Page 12 | FerrariChat

Here's a pic of me pulling the engine out of my 612 yesterday!

Discussion in '612/599' started by trygve11, Jul 4, 2014.

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  1. trygve11

    trygve11 Formula Junior
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    #276 trygve11, Oct 21, 2014
    And oh. Different bank and different cylinder than the hydrolocked one
     
  2. 134282

    134282 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    #277 134282, Oct 21, 2014
    Is that the assembly number? The small silver and black plaque in the engine bay? The serial number would be the last six of the VIN.
     
  3. trygve11

    trygve11 Formula Junior
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    #278 trygve11, Oct 21, 2014
    Don't have i handy. Why do you ask?
     
  4. 134282

    134282 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    #279 134282, Oct 21, 2014
    I maintain a private Ferrari registry, vying to document every car I see, both in person and online. Just like buyers of vintage Ferraris are curious about those cars' early history, so too will buyers of these contemporary Ferraris decades from now.
     
  5. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #280 tazandjan, Oct 21, 2014
    Jason- Sorry everything did not work out perfectly. Will keep my fingers crossed for you this fall and winter.
     
  6. trygve11

    trygve11 Formula Junior
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    #281 trygve11, Oct 22, 2014
    Thanks Taz. It will just take some more time and money. And a lot of patience which is not a virtue of mine!
     
  7. trygve11

    trygve11 Formula Junior
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    #282 trygve11, Oct 23, 2014
    Hi Stew, can you please contact me back if possible? I would really like to borrow those tools again to address my latest issue. I sent you a couple PMs but haven't heard back!

    Help! Thanks,

    - Jason
     
  8. NYC Fred

    NYC Fred F1 Veteran
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    #283 NYC Fred, Oct 23, 2014
    That truly sucks.

    Hit the beach in the DR, have a few cold ones, enjoy time w the fam and come back rested and refreshed. You'll get it done.
     
  9. cmparrenzo

    cmparrenzo F1 Rookie

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    #284 cmparrenzo, Oct 23, 2014
    Carbon is a historian, he keeps a database on every Ferrari he meets, he is a great guy, very well respected and his information is kept confidential....

    we all share with Carbon!
     
  10. Smart4400

    Smart4400 Rookie

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    #285 Smart4400, Oct 23, 2014
    Apologies.. Didn't see the PMs. See PM reply...
    Regards,
     
  11. Northman

    Northman Formula Junior

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    #286 Northman, Oct 24, 2014
    "Vraiment desoler" Jason, forget the whole thing with the familly on the island.
    When you come back it would at least be a "minor" winter project compare to the outstanding task that you have been through.
    Thank you again so much for letting us following on your quest.
     
  12. trygve11

    trygve11 Formula Junior
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    #287 trygve11, Oct 24, 2014
    Yes, minor I hope! Provided it is not the lower end but I can't imagine what screw-up could have resulted in the bottom end being the issue.

    Funny thing is, I did a full leakdown on the engine before the initial teardown. Even though I couldn't turn it over (because of the massively bent rod), I pulled all the cams and did a leakdown. The current cylinder with zero compression had a leakdown value of 45% (so 55% leaking out). So clearly a valve issue there. Machine shop said all the valves were straight and just needed a simple valve job. Time will tell when I pull the head.

    75% probability I caused two exhaust valves to bend by not pulling the #1 and #6 cylinders below TDC when doing the tightening of those cam sprockets. I used an impact and clamps and may have rotated the exhaust cam enough to have the valves kiss the piston. The Ferrari cams have no place to put a wrench on them to keep them from rotating while tightening (like my Alfa cams do), so that presented the challenge and my failure to back the engine off approx 30 degrees may not cost me a battery of weekends and a grand. All part of my bonding experience with this car!

    Cheers guys...
     
  13. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #288 tazandjan, Oct 24, 2014
    Unfortunately that is a very common problem when assembling the V12s and we had a 550 owner whose tech did the same thing when he pulled the cams to change the cam seals. Next time around (hopefully not for 10 years or so), the 575s and 612s do not have to have the cams pulled to change those seals, a big improvement over the 456 and 550.
     
  14. trygve11

    trygve11 Formula Junior
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    #289 trygve11, Oct 24, 2014
    God is good, life is good. I will get it ironed out and will have learned to be a better mechanic because of it. No worries and thanks for the encouragement.
     
  15. dadswrld

    dadswrld Karting

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    #290 dadswrld, Oct 30, 2014
    Your in the right frame of mind! You'll succeed at completing this massive project!

    If ever you watched The Flintstones WAY back, try and remember this episode, he thought he wasn't going to make it, but overcame the obstacles (or chipped wheels, lol)! In the end, you'll get it sorted and we'll be here cheering for you!

    Travel safe and enjoy that vacation now!

    http://youtu.be/GmQoWQb4tx0
     
  16. 134282

    134282 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    #291 134282, Oct 30, 2014
    Thanks, Chris.
    You say that now, but I still don't know the serial number of your 599. ;)
     
  17. trygve11

    trygve11 Formula Junior
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    #292 trygve11, Nov 1, 2014
    Thanks guys!

    Back in town (for another 30 hours) and plan to get to the shop and finish the compression check on all 12 cylinders and complete the leakdown on the bad #6 to confirm what I need to order (which valves likely) in addition to the gaskets.

    Will let you all know what I find!
     
  18. trygve11

    trygve11 Formula Junior
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    #293 trygve11, Nov 2, 2014
    OK, as projected I have two bent exhaust valves on the #6 cylinder (this is rear cylinder on passenger bank). Confirmed via a leakdown test today.

    All other cylinder are strong and report great compression.

    I will pull the head next weekend and have the valves replaced. Then reinstall.

    Likely I caused the problem when tightening the cam wheel on the exhaust cam. When you time the engine you do it with #1 cylinder at TDC on compression stroke. Well, in that position the #6 cylinder is also at TDC butt 360 degrees out. The valves are much closer to being opened on the #6 cylinder at this point. And when I removed the cam belt and tried to hold the cams and do a final torque of the cam wheels with the impact, it must have rotated the exhaust cam enough to open the exhaust valves into the piston. And since there is no way to hold the cam with a wrench or anything, I was screwed.

    What I should have done was turn the engine back enough to bring all the passenger bank pistons below TDC so contact would have been impossible. The reason I didn't is because I actually had the damned timing belts back off as I was waiting on parts to repair the tensioners band didn't want to screw up all the timing and alignments. Well, this ultimately led to the mishap. Bummer. But it will be addressed! I hope to bolt the repaired head back on over Thanksgiving and re-run this puppy before the New Year!

    Stay tuned...
     
  19. southnc

    southnc Formula 3

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    #294 southnc, Nov 2, 2014
    Life is a learning process.

    Sometimes you make mistakes. But, this just makes you stronger and more knowledgeable.

    I'm sure the next go-around will have the results you've been working so hard for.
     
  20. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #295 tazandjan, Nov 2, 2014
    I predict she will run fine this time. At least you know this has bitten a bunch of pros in the past.
     
  21. Nospinzone

    Nospinzone F1 Veteran

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    #296 Nospinzone, Nov 3, 2014
    Jason, if I were Sergio M, I would install you as lead mechanic on next year's F1 team!
     
  22. cmparrenzo

    cmparrenzo F1 Rookie

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    #297 cmparrenzo, Nov 5, 2014
    You never asked!
     
  23. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #298 fatbillybob, Nov 7, 2014
    I am not sure I fully understand what you did except the outcome which was unfortunately bent valves. I have not take a 612 apart but worked on many Ferrari interference engines and rebuilt them too.

    I do some controversial things without the proper Ferrari tools. Your "what I should have done" solution makes for more confusion and potential damage somewhere else. If you maintain TDC at all times and maintain the cam to caps assembly marks at all times you can never go wrong and it is always a fast check of where you are. It is a hard reference point and take tireness, can't remember shAt disease, or any number of mental lapses out of the equation. Judicious use of matchbook covers will lock cams in place during torquing and will not damage cams or caps if done properly. I have used that method for almost 35 years. I work by myself and I can't view the torque wrench properly torquing cogs even if I have the rare camshafts with the hex on them for a wrench to fit so I always use the matchbook method.
     
  24. trygve11

    trygve11 Formula Junior
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    #299 trygve11, Nov 7, 2014
    fatbillybob,

    Yes, you hit the nail on the head. I should have used shim stock to lock the cams and tighten the cam wheels (or matchbox covers as you stated). I recall looking for appropriate metal for shims but the matchbox cover idea didn't occur to me. I wish it had!

    Do you do the shim on just one cam cap or several?

    Thanks,

    - Jason
     
  25. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #300 fatbillybob, Nov 7, 2014
    On a 6 cyl head I lock all the caps because I want the least pressure on the caps but still be able to reach the torque spec of the cog nut. I never use metal and nothing thicker than a match book cover. What I actually use is the cardboard wrap of single edge razor blades which are about 1/2 the matchbook cover thickness. I buy blade packs by the 100's because I use single edge blades for so many things. So I use what's on hand. I always leave a paper tail sticking out from under the cap so that it acts like a red flag. If you leave the cardboard and start the engine you are toast. So much of working on cars is not hard just measuring twice cutting once.
     
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