High-Speed Ferrari Crash Is Terrible & Horrifying | Page 2 | FerrariChat

High-Speed Ferrari Crash Is Terrible & Horrifying

Discussion in 'Challenge/GT Cars/Track' started by Roadney, May 14, 2013.

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  1. rcallahan

    rcallahan F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Jul 15, 2002
    3,307
    Santa Barbara
    Full Name:
    Bob Callahan
    Like Rob says "you race to the flag" From one vid on the opposite side it looks like he was right behind the car that suddenly slowed. BTW, If my crew doesn't alert me to the last lap, I've accidentally missed the checkers and the next thing I saw was the corner workers clapping! :)
     
  2. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
    42,445
    ESP
    Full Name:
    Bas
    Fair enough Rob.

    RE the first point, heart attacks can occur at any one point, even to the fittest people. Look at Kato in MotoGP in 2001 if I remember correctly, also at suzuka. He suffered a heart attack after exiting 130r and hit the barrier at full speed. Didn't survive (part blame goes to incompetent marshalls).
     
  3. GerryD

    GerryD Formula 3

    May 5, 2010
    2,438
    North of TO
    Full Name:
    Guido
    As in any car accident be it on track or street, there is no hurry to remove the driver UNLESS there is fire involved. The victim has to be stabilized first. In many of this type of car accident, the victim(s) may have sustained a C-spine fracture and extricating them before assessment can result in the victim becoming a paraplegic for the rest of his or her life. Yes there is an urgency but there is also a way of doing things properly. As for the guys with the white sheets....a little premature I would say.
     
  4. Heat Seeker WS6

    Heat Seeker WS6 Formula 3

    Nov 4, 2003
    1,704
    Milwaukee, WI
    Full Name:
    John G
    Is it possible that the other would-be first responders were getting ready to go off station, or busy doing other things knowing the race was over that they got beat to the scene by the sheet guys and others?
     
  5. M-individual

    M-individual F1 Rookie

    Oct 5, 2007
    2,937
    GTO, 458C, GT3RS
    As a "colleague" 458 Challenge driver I was horrified seeing this crash. First of all, I'm glad to hear that the driver survived and will hopefully come out of it without permanent injuries. I hope and pray that the same goes for the track marshal because it is because of these passionate people that we get to drive and enjoy our cars on track. That's what is key to me. People walking away from such accidents. It goes to show how safe these cars became but at the same time, it shows that what we do out there on the track involves a lot of risk.

    As a driver, you have to look at a lot of things and the parameters around you are constantly changing. Accidents very often look silly and many times I hear people saying: "How did that happen?". Just think of experienced driver's going off on a warm up lap. That shouldn't happen but it does. Why ... simple human error, miscommunication, ... you name it. Lot's of things can go wrong. I'll be honest ... I've stayed out one lap longer than a usual stint of say 3 laps during training. Does that mean I can't count to 3? I would hope not but you are so focussed on all the other things going on around you and in the car that you simply "forget" to count the laps.

    So let's not judge the driver and certainly not the track marshal and medics based on the footage and without knowing the full story. I hope they will find out what caused the driver to react the way he did because we may learn from this and implement new procedures during a race to prevent this from happening in the future.

    All the best to the track marshal and driver. My thoughts are with both of them!

    M
     
  6. johnhoughtaling

    johnhoughtaling Formula 3

    Nov 6, 2002
    2,113
    New Orleans
    Full Name:
    John William H.
    #31 johnhoughtaling, May 21, 2013
    Last edited: May 21, 2013
    I'd echo the sentiments that what may seem like gross negligence watching from video or sidelines can easily happen even to experienced racers. Usually it is a series of small mistakes that add up.

    Driver likely missed the white flag on last lap. Its on one station and if you are in a battle it can happen. So he doesn't realize he is coming up to the end of the race. The finishing drivers ahead of him are spaced out, not battling for position and slow, possibly more that expected. If the checker was just thrown, then the last drivers slowed a lot at the end of a very fast straight. Next the driver in a battle is full speed at the end. Looks like he came up very fast on a dramatic decrease in speed of the Black car ahead of him, and looses control to avoid a rear ending situation. A lot of little things that add up.

    In 2011 in CCR we had two cars impact slightly in a similar series of mistakes. It involved three of the most experienced drivers in the series who were running 1, 2, and 3. Driver in the lead sees a waiving yellow and slows. Drivers 2 and 3 are running nose to tail and miss the first yellow, (easy to do, the yellow is blocked by car in front for driver in the rear. driver in front glances in rear view and misses flag) they both catch driver 1 running unexpectedly slow. Driver 2 assumes drive 1 has a mechanical problem and Driver 2 makes an evasive move and avoids a rear end. Driver three is presented unexpectedly with a slow car directly in path and also make and evasive move, both cars pass driver 1 and touch doors as they both try to gather it up. In this scenario there luckily was just a scrape but it demonstrates how various small mistakes can add up.

    I do echo Rob though that a guy dedicated to white sheet duty is a bit frustrating to each when they are one of the first to arrive to such a catastrophic scene. If I was the loved one in the audience Id prefer they cover the body of my family only after they determine he's gone.

    So glad this fellow and worker may be ok.
     
  7. rdefabri

    rdefabri Three Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 4, 2008
    33,571
    NJ
    Full Name:
    Rich
    Ok - holy crap - look at around :40 of the video, you see a track person, in helmet, walking towards the location where the corner worker is. This is just before the accident.

    Then, as the accident occurs - and this guy can't be more than 100 feet away - you very briefly see his helmet, and it appears HE'S WALKING. A MAN WAS HIT AND THROWN BY A SPEEDING CAR AND HE'S WALKING...

    I will not cast any judgement on the driver, but IMHO, the reaction to this - by anyone and everyone nearby - is unacceptable. It's as if they didn't see it happen, but they were right there and couldn't possibly miss it.
     
  8. MisterMaranello

    MisterMaranello F1 Rookie

    Apr 5, 2011
    3,313
    Europe
    I completely agree with Rob comments, having brief experience as a track worker myself I am not really happy with the response of the safety crew. I don't want to come across as judgemental because I don't know the whole story and perspective from trackside. I also don't want to be taken as prejudice but this is not the first time I've seen Japanese safety crews more worried about looking good and white sheets than actually doing something. This of course occours a lot of other places, but I don't know if anyone remembers and incident with a Ferrari which caught in fire like 10 years ago. Driver nearly burned to death because of an appaling safety crew response.

    1) crew reaction is slow. A lot of you probably have trackday and race experience, but anyone here with trackside experience will agree that this is a clumsy and slow response. Ferrari Challenge is not a low-tier grassroots event, this is a proffesionaly organized high speed gt world class event. The crew are not assisting the driver as they should, the personenel management is poor. I respect the white sheet-thingy but that is not a priority in establishing control and a safety assesment in the seconds after a very serious accident. After securibg a perimeter for the crew to work in (i.e. not running out on the middle of the track when the cars are seconds away etc.) the driver safety is above all. I've been pissed off at people who wonder in the pit lane, cross the track during active sessions etc. I've also given the crew responsible a going over. Once an SLS nearly ran down an idiot cameraman who thought it was a good idea to walk cross track in a blind corner just because he could see any car for the 50 meters of track he could actually see.

    It may seem a lot of the crew on site don't have hands on practice and training with coping and managing personnel in acute situations. If they haven't recieved proper training it's not their fault, but when you volunteer to stand on the front line you need to respect the risks you are exposing yourselves to, and prepare for situations.

    The response of the marshalls can be summarized in one word: clumsy
     
  9. cwwhk

    cwwhk Formula 3

    Nov 13, 2003
    1,535
    Hong Kong, Tokyo
    Full Name:
    Wayne
    Sometimes it is easy to write a comment and forget there are real people behind these type of videos. I am appalled and disturbed you are making these rather insensitive comments without knowing the details surrounding this accident. Yes, obviously a mistake was made somewhere to cause this accident, but if that driver was your friend or relative would you post what you posted in a public forum? I sure hope not. By the way the correct English spelling of the injured driver's last name is Terashima, who is a very experienced racer and very passionate about Ferraris. There is a private FaceBook page with hundreds of racers around the world wishing him well. I am glad to say he just came out of his coma a few days ago and is being transferred from Suzuka to a Tokyo hospital, and the track marshal is also out of danger.

    Now specifically addressing your points.

    1) Apparently Terashima san was in a heated battle and did not see the checkered flag. I am not absolutely certain but apparently there wasn't a lap count down board and the checker flag station is very close to the last corner at Suzuka. Yes, the onus is on the driver to see the checker flag, but it is easily understandable even an experienced driver may miss it and not realized until say T1 and T2. Even professional drivers like Bruno Senna crashed in Macau GP some years ago after the checkered flag because he didn't see it and was still racing.

    2) Marshal reaction time was super quick compared to most race venues. The closest marshal was critically injured so rescue workers from the next station had to reach that spot. And that particular location just before T1 at Suzuka is not normally where an accident will occur, so not a fully manned marshal post. I can't imagine the response time being much quicker anywhere!

    3) White sheets are to prevent video footage for the privacy of the the injured, not for what you assume as cover for deceased. In Japan, they have very regimented and specific responsibility assignments. So the marshals holding up the white sheets did exactly what they were specifically assigned to do. Would you prefer marshals untrained in medical first aid to move the driver and possibly do more harm than good?

    4) The driver in white 458C which pulled over is a good friend of Terashima san. I applaud his compassion to stop and check on his friend. His car was well away from rescue operation and he himself did not hamper rescue as can be clearly seen in the video. If god forbid similar situation ever arise hope I am the man that he is and I would stop on track to check on my friend.

    5) This point I agree with you.
     
  10. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Miami 2018 Owner Social Subscribed

    Dec 1, 2000
    63,375
    Southlake, TX
    Full Name:
    Rob Lay
    This is car racing! If you can't take the heat, then get out of the damn fire. It is a dangerous sport and people die, the best thing is for drivers and officials to critically evaluate for improvement so similar mistakes don't happen again.

    I'm not being insensitive, I'm being real. I have experience racing in over 250 races with 3 different organizations. I am a little versed with the good, bad, and ugly.

    so I was right.

    You can see able workers just standing around after the incident. It went from standing around not doing anything to a herd of people crowding and congesting the scene.

    no, prefer he would stay the hell out of the way.

    I guess your workers are really bad, because all the drivers want to do their job.
     
  11. cwwhk

    cwwhk Formula 3

    Nov 13, 2003
    1,535
    Hong Kong, Tokyo
    Full Name:
    Wayne
    I am a little versed in racing as well. Been racing internationally for over ten years and currently hold an FIA International A license.

    I disagree with the way you post your views. I'll leave it like that.
     
  12. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    17,673
    Tauranga, NZ
    Full Name:
    Pete
    Things always look slow when watching a replay in the calm setting of sitting on your couch ... I've been a corner worker and you have to access the situation first before running and potentially getting run over, etc. Panic solves nothing.

    The only thing, other than the cause of the accident, that worried me was the poor guy at the end of the fence as only one person appeared to be attending that person, but again I'm just watching a replay.

    I'm glad that all look like being on the road to recovery.
    Pete
     
  13. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
    42,445
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    Bas
    Chris, I'm wondering if you have any updates on your colleague's condition? How is his recovery coming along?
     
  14. Mozella

    Mozella Formula Junior

    Mar 24, 2013
    905
    Piemonte, Italia
    Yeah, me too. I was quickly scanning through this thread and found the tone of some posts a little bit on the rough side. On most forums this kind of aggressive behavior would result in a harsh reprimand from the administrator and perhaps even a ban. But then I checked who was doing the posting................................... as my hero Homer would say, "DOH!"
     
  15. asianbond

    asianbond Formula 3

    Nov 8, 2003
    1,276
    Full Name:
    Chris
    I don't have his latest condition. Last I heard he has awaken from coma and it will be a slow recovery. I suspect there is some memory loss.

    Rob was overly harsh, we all make mistakes, especially on race tracks where the margin for error is nil!
     
  16. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
    42,445
    ESP
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    Bas
    I'm happy he's awaken from his coma. I hope he'll recover fully of course. With the recent deaths in motor racing it could've gone a lot worse.

    Fully agreed on the last part.
     

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