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History (pre owners) of my vintage Ferrari needed

Discussion in '308/328' started by in-dino-veritas, Mar 29, 2019.

  1. in-dino-veritas

    Nov 22, 2005
    18
    Austria
    Full Name:
    Dino
    Hi,

    I already asked some years ago, but nobody was able to help me.
    I am still looking for the pre-owners of my vintage Ferrari (Dino #8008). First 308gt4 delivered to France. Ferrari France does not want to give me the names of the owners.
    Any ideas ?
    Br
    Phil
     
  2. Saabguy

    Saabguy Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 28, 2012
    1,392
    Shreveport, LA
    I can't help. Just to let you know that your plea has been read.
     
  3. bertrand328

    bertrand328 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 1, 2015
    831
    France
    Full Name:
    Bertrand
    Indeed Pozzi ( Ferrari France ) will never give you any name.
    Did you try through Ferrari owner's club ? May some "Ferrari historian" could help you ?
     
  4. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    25,367
    Austin TX
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    If you know the geographic area it was in asking any Ferrari dealers or specialists shops that may still exist is worth a try.

    With so many privacy concerns and laws it can be very difficult.
     
  5. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
    10,004
    FRANCE
    Absolutely, it is a matter of privacy laws and data protection: Pozzi would be liable in court should they share this information. One thing that might - might (?) - is the former french registration(s) of the car (and, of course, former service bills, etc...).
    Rgds
     
  6. Martin308GTB

    Martin308GTB F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 22, 2003
    3,730
    SW-Germany
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    Martin N.
    Had the same problem with my car, which once was sold new in France. My pre-owner, who imported the car to Germany was ******, who didn't make copies of the old french paperwork, when he registered the car in Germany.
    He didn't deserve the car anyway, and so I purchased it after 9 months of his ownership, when his wife ran away from him and he needed the money :)

    Best from Germany
    Martin
     
  7. in-dino-veritas

    Nov 22, 2005
    18
    Austria
    Full Name:
    Dino
    #7 in-dino-veritas, Mar 30, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2019
    Hi everybody,

    - The pre-owner of my car bought it at an auction. He did not get the name of his pre-owner. The auction house does not exist anymore. It was supposed in the south of France. My pre-owner was the former president of the Dino-Club France (located near Paris-Versailles)

    - The only thing he knew was, that the car was the first delivered car to France. Apparently Charles Pozzi (former racing-car-driver and first importer of Ferrari in France) himself drove it from Maranello to Paris.

    - I was already in contact with a French Ferrari collector and historian who has got very good connections to Ferrari Classiche. He gave me the name of a Classiche employe whom I met some years ago. Supposedly they have no info and no copies of service-papers outside Maranello.

    - Additionally I asked a friend of me who is a high police officer in France. He said that registration papers are erased after 10 years. So there is no way to find them any more from authoritiy side.

    - I have plenty of service bills but only the ones from my direct pre-owner.

    I do not think that the first owner(s) were registered in Ferrari-clubs. And perhaps they did the regular services not at an official Ferrari-dealer……

    My hope is, to find the pre-owner(s) directly here (perhaps they still collect Ferrari’s) or that someone remember the car. Originally it was brown metallic with beige trim. #8008 from March 1974 (exactly 45 years old : )

    Please share this thread with potential insiders

    Thanks a lot to you all

    Br from Austria

    phil
     
  8. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

    Dec 8, 2004
    10,430
    South East
    Full Name:
    Jimmie
    Dare one ask what is driving this need ?
     
  9. in-dino-veritas

    Nov 22, 2005
    18
    Austria
    Full Name:
    Dino
    I just want a full history of my car and maybe interesting conservations with former owners. I am a fan of history in general ;-)
     
  10. miketuason

    miketuason F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Feb 24, 2006
    13,292
    Cerritos, CA.
    Full Name:
    Mike
    Dino, I’m the third owner of my 308 and also I wanted to find out who is the first owner, what I did to find the first original owner of my 308 is I went Facebook and since I have the name of the original owner, written inside the service booklet that came with the car, I sent a message saying, “did you used to own a 1984 308.” to the people with that name which is about 40 of them, I got a lot of respond saying NO, then after about two weeks one person replied YES I used to own one, so after verifying everything that he is really the original owner of my car, it was confirmed and he told me he remembered my car very well. So my suggestion is to try what I did if you know the original owners name if not it will be very difficult to trace.
     
  11. Glassman

    Glassman F1 World Champ
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    Apr 23, 2002
    12,870
    When I cleaned out my 250gt after delivery, I found a credit card receipt under a seat.
    That set the ball rolling. I wound up meeting in person every previous owner except one.
     
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  12. Nino1964

    Nino1964 Karting

    Aug 14, 2015
    145
    North Georgia
    The previous owner of my car had missed placed/lost service records performed by a south Florida Ferrari dealer. After I purchased the car I called the service department and asked if I could have copies. They promised to send them but they never arrived. I visited the dealership and asked if I could have copies and they said they would send them to me. Never received them and so I sent reminders and even offered cash and of course I never received them. Finally I saw that the dealership had changed ownership and there was a new service manager. I called the new service manager and he said he would send copies if I would send proof of ownership which I did and one week later I got the records.
     
  13. ferrariowner

    ferrariowner Formula Junior

    Feb 21, 2014
    476
    Mansfield, TX
    Full Name:
    Ron
    Privacy is not a issue in the US, at least as far as the DMV is concerned. I wanted to know the same information on one of my cars and all I had to do was ask the DMV in the state it was originally registered. They sent me everything from the purchase price and every owner since (in that state). They had a wealth of data in their files. I even called the original owner and had a good talk with him. I understand things may be different in France. BTW-this car purchased new from Pozzi and sold new in the US.
    Good luck.
     
  14. Martin308GTB

    Martin308GTB F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 22, 2003
    3,730
    SW-Germany
    Full Name:
    Martin N.
    You have generally more transparency in the U.S. Look at the SEC (Security and Exchange commission), where you can find anything online. We do not have such a thing and have to wait till a company goes to the dogs, while you can act early enough saving your money. O.k., sorry this was off-topic.

    How does this work??

    Best from Germany
    Martin
     
  15. ferrariowner

    ferrariowner Formula Junior

    Feb 21, 2014
    476
    Mansfield, TX
    Full Name:
    Ron
    Martin,
    Back in the 1980's there was a shortage of 308's available in the US. This coupled with a very favorable exchange rate prompted many individuals to purchase cars in Europe and import them into the US. Charles Pozzi was one of the largest sellers of these cars to US buyers. A new 308QV in 1985 sold for around $65,000 USD in the US. My car was purchased new from Pozzi for $39,000 USD and sold new in the US for $55,000 USD. They buyer would then import the car into the US and bring it up to US emission and crash standards (at least they were supposed to be altered. Many were not). They were called grey market cars in the US. We call them Euro cars. Many brands of cars were imported including Ferrari, Mercedes, BMW and Porsche and were all popular in the grey market.

    Regards,
     
    JuLiTrO likes this.
  16. in-dino-veritas

    Nov 22, 2005
    18
    Austria
    Full Name:
    Dino
    I have also an old MG who was orginally from the US. Same situation: My pre-owner (Austrian guy) did not know anything about the car. It was imported in a bundle of different cars by a bulk buyer. Note: I only knew the chassisnumber and the information that the car was from the US. BUT I received everything about the car and it's pre-owners with one single email to the US authorities. I was able to contact every single pre-owner and of course the most important one: The first owner. Interesting guy: Former Designer of Walt Disney in California. He ordered the car in 1968. He sent me even the buying-contract, different bills, manual etc. AND he asked me if the car still has a light bending under the bonnet support. I said yes. He told me why: Once he parked the car without pulling the handbrake. The car began to roll away and hit a palmtree after some meters. As an Austrian guy this story sound very funny, because we have no palmtrees here :)
     
    Saabguy likes this.
  17. 308 milano

    308 milano F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 15, 2007
    3,844
    Montana
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    Kim
    Not going to happen with the Montana DMV. They won’t release any of that information. They take the privacy issue very seriously.
     
  18. CL308GTB

    CL308GTB Rookie

    Jan 23, 2019
    16
    Full Name:
    C L
    I also have a Pozzi delivered car. luckily, I had the name of the first owner on the service book and also the name of the 2 following owners in the service bills. Nonetheless, I managed to contact them in order to confirm history of the car and ask for any information they could give me. One thing that worked very well for me was the French Trade Registry (infogreffe).

    I noticed that the first owner ceased its activity in 1989 (around the date were he sold the car). From there, I checked for bankruptcy fillings or death certificates. Unfortunately, the later option was the good one and I found the death certificate published in a local newspaper in 1989. The good thing was that it was published by its wife and sons. I then managed to find one of the sons contact details (through infogreffe again) and contacted him. He remembered the car very well (that's probably easier when it's a Ferrari) and told me some very personal stories about it (including how he "borrowed" it one day, without telling its dad, to go to the Monaco Grand Prix with its girlfriend and ended up in Rome the day after, because... why not?). He also remembered that they sold the car to an Italian guy living near Annecy (in France). Which also was in line with my information.

    Finding the second owner was easier. The guy is actually a celebrity in its neighborhood as he's probably 90 years old now and still running hyper trails... I managed to find the name of its sport association in local newspaper and pretended to be a journalist that wanted to interview him. He was a little bit surprised when i explained the rationale of my call but was very nice and answered all my questions (in particular, he confirmed that he only did 10.000 km during its 13 years ownership), I was very anxious that the car might have been around the clock during this period but all its information matched the paperwork I had. He even offered to send me anything he could find in its papers about the car. It was mostly duplicatas that I already had, but appreciated its help!

    The last one was the guy from which I bought the car to. He purchased the car in 2002. It was its second 308 - the first one being wrecked in a car accident he had while using its local countryside roads as if it was the PIkes Peak hill-climb... Even though the service bills were pretty extensive, I contacted the OTC Utac (which is the supervisory body of the MOT in France) and managed to receive a clear historic of all the MOT performed on the car since its ownership (16 years).

    From there, I convinced myself that it was the good one and finally purchased this car on the very day of my 30th birthday!

    Apologies for this massive off topic but hopefully it could give you new ideas... I'll keep an eye open on my side if I hear everything about your car.
     
  19. in-dino-veritas

    Nov 22, 2005
    18
    Austria
    Full Name:
    Dino
    very nice story as well ! I like those stories because they should belong to every vintage car. A+
     
  20. bertrand328

    bertrand328 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 1, 2015
    831
    France
    Full Name:
    Bertrand

    Félicitations et bravo pour ce travail de recherche
     
  21. marklintott

    marklintott Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 13, 2005
    504
    Taipei / UK
    Full Name:
    Mark Lintott
    Love these stories - they give the car “life” or at least a reminder that they have lived a sometimes interesting life before me (or you...) of course no one has ever loved my Ferrari more than I do under my custodianship..!

    Mark
     
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  22. ferrariowner

    ferrariowner Formula Junior

    Feb 21, 2014
    476
    Mansfield, TX
    Full Name:
    Ron
    You may want to issue the Montana DMV a F.O.I.R. request. All government data is retrievable unless redacted for specific reasons.
     
  23. 308 milano

    308 milano F1 Rookie
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    Jan 15, 2007
    3,844
    Montana
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    Kim
    #23 308 milano, Apr 2, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2019
    We had a dealers license for many years. Can tell you firsthand that Montana DMV will not release any personal information on previous owners but by all means give it a shot. Let me know how it works out for ya.
     
    Rifledriver likes this.
  24. ferrariowner

    ferrariowner Formula Junior

    Feb 21, 2014
    476
    Mansfield, TX
    Full Name:
    Ron
    Ken, I dont need any info from Montana. A FOIR request is a legal requirement. Just saying.
     
  25. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    25,367
    Austin TX
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    Most states are vert strict. FOIR or not, most will not share that information.

    Auto manufacturers for the purpose of recalls in one of the only non governmental requests they will entertain.
     
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