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Holden stops making cars from 2017

Discussion in 'Australia' started by F-Serge, Dec 11, 2013.

  1. F-Serge

    F-Serge Formula 3

    Aug 3, 2004
    1,857
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    Serge
    I guess we're seeing the end of australian car manufacturing - it's only a matter of time before Toyota closes their plant. The writing has been on the wall for local cars for some time, i'm surprised Holden and Ford managed to stay for so long.
    Now I hope the government raises the LCT threshold to something a bit more appropriate for a 'luxury car' status - from $60k to $160k sounds about right.
    Thoughts, opinions?
     
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  3. wrxmike

    wrxmike Moderator
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    Mar 20, 2004
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    1: Governments don't reduce taxes, so don't expect the LCT threshold to increase.
    2: Expect substantial flow on effects on local manufacturing, sad really
    3: People will carry on about it being the fault of the product, but the underlying problem is lack of volume, due to limited exports and cheap alternatives from overseas. That situation has been brought about by the high Aussie dollar over the past few years, and our relatively high cost of production (wages, taxes, etc)

    M
     
  4. rob_london_sydney

    Oct 22, 2005
    223
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    Rob M
    Yes, the federal government is facing a $40b black hole this year; far worse than we were hearing earlier this year. They will be scrambling for all they're worth. Dropping taxes applied to a minority wont win them votes; perhaps the opposite might even occur, ie raising taxes against those demonised "rich people" may even win some votes.

    Populist politics at its worst, and, frankly, not unexpected, with the uneducated / uninformed that are being led by the nose.

    So sad.

    But then, we didnt get here overnight. This has been brewing over a reasonably long period of time. As Mike rightly points out, our cost structure is high. Unions demending more and more, in advance of productivity. We've seen capital asset pricing bubbles occur, and theres no way these will deflate willingly. Commercial rents are high, and this gets passed on to consumers. Consumers complain about affordability, and demand higher wages. Businesses complain about higher wages, and then put the prices up.

    And around we go.

    Meanwhile, low cost countries look at us like we're a bunch of fruit cakes (quite rightly). And in the meantime, no one wants to admit the only way out of this mess is to dampen our standard of living.

    What a mess.

    The entire population growth argument is a huge can of whoop ass to unpack. Demographics suggest we need a bunch of young taxpers to look after our ageing population.

    Cool.

    But I really wonder about the migrants Aus is receiving. Anecdotally, we seem to be getting a bunch of boat people. But in reality, our annual intake is less than one bad weekend that Italy gets at Lampedusa.

    I'd love to hear from people that know more than me (not hard, as I'm turning into an old cynic).
     
  5. kerrari

    kerrari F1 World Champ
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    Oct 22, 2004
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    Karen H.
    Australia is, in some ways, too rich for its own good... everybody in Australia has the expectation of a clean job, own home, cars, overseas holidays etc etc. According to an article in the Australian this week, Holden workers are overpaid at $62k+ and should be paid closer to the minimum wage of $34k - how can anyone live on that in Australia these days? Which politician is going to tell the "Aussie Battler" they need to give up their aspirations and get back to being low-paid workers?
     
  6. dc348

    dc348 Formula Junior

    May 27, 2006
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    Holden going is just so sad and all those people losing their jobs. Can't blame them with the cost and reducing market share and the VF has already started to slow down.
     
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  8. GERRA456gt

    GERRA456gt Formula 3

    Jun 4, 2005
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    Anthony
    Isn't the whole deal of LCT to protect the Australian manufacturing of Aussie cars? Or is it more to do with increasing government revenues?
    Ford and Holden will soon cease manufacturing here, it wont be to long before Toyota calls it a day.
    What would be the point of LCT once all have gone?
     
  9. 365GTC/4

    365GTC/4 Formula 3

    Apr 7, 2005
    1,505
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    John
    To maintain tax revenues.
    The closure of Holden is a ballwether of things to come. Funny how the unions are still playing the 19th century class war by blaming a government that has been in office for 10 weeks when the issues are fundamental and have been brewing for at least 20 years. That situation in itself indicates the depth of the problem. Any group (family, city, state, company or nation) must have wealth creation. Once the wealth is created THEN you can have wealth transfer with the coffee shops, climate change committees etc. Australia's wealth creation is in the mining, manufacturing and agriculture sectors. Now the manufacturing sector with its high costs of compliance, tax and overheads is about dead in this country. So when the mining industry slips up a bit we as a nation will be in deep poo poo. Seriously. I worked in manufacturing and I spent 1 day a week on totally non productive administration sitting on OH&S committees, fire warden duties, risk assessment eg putting signs up on stairs stating the bleeding obvious "Trip Hazard" etc etc. All that costs. Sitting in a room with 10 people discussing what the legal requirements of a "Trip Hazard" sign at a set of stairs (There is 10 man hours just there.) was a joke. But the company was required by law to comply. Of course there was all the issues with litigation and work cover as well which cost a fortune that our competitors do not have. Sad really. In 20 years time people will say wtf happened??? Well it is obvious and it was obvious to blind Freddie 20 years ago.
     
  10. EfiOz

    EfiOz Formula Junior

    Jul 26, 2005
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    Lucivius Maximus
    The stark reality is that manufacturing jobs like this are not going to work in this country as long as we have a strong dollar and high standards of living. It's just impossible for us to compete with what amounts to slave labour, or at the very least, indentured servitude, type economies with currency clamps, etc.

    Just thank someone that we have all this expensive stuff to dig up, otherwise we'd be back to sheep farming.
     
  11. ants2au

    ants2au Formula Junior

    Nov 19, 2003
    690
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    Anthony
    So to solve that, companies will ask for more from less...and the government will sit there applauding how efficient we are :p
    i guess from holden and fords' perspective, they have squeezed all they could squeeze out of their workforce.

     
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  13. vegas1

    vegas1 F1 Rookie

    Jul 28, 2004
    4,202
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    Ironically. I have a VF Holden Commodore company car and its by far the best Commodore I have had over a 20-year period.
     
  14. Gleggy

    Gleggy Formula 3

    Sep 22, 2004
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    Spot On!!
     
  15. LAMBOR

    LAMBOR Rookie

    Jun 15, 2008
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    Australian unions brought this on them self's by being greedy
     
  16. littledino

    littledino Karting

    Feb 16, 2006
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    Lewis Reinhold
    Absolutely! I couldn't agree more.There's too much government interference.
     
  17. kerrari

    kerrari F1 World Champ
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    Oct 22, 2004
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    OH&S (of the petty kind), like QA didn't originate with government - grew out of litigation and marketing (respectively)... And yes, largely bull poo IMHO; although not to be confused with REAL safety legislation such as is required for mining and dangerous jobs.
     
  18. dc348

    dc348 Formula Junior

    May 27, 2006
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    With Ford and Holden, they simply didn't sell enough. A lot people had issues with Australian build and fuel consumption with large cars but the fact is quality is very very good and economy is only marginally worst than a small car.
     
  19. carl888

    carl888 F1 Rookie
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    Oct 31, 2003
    4,561
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    Carl Jones
    How many jobs are going, it was 1,800 or so wasn't it? Plus the ones from the suppliers. But why didn't we hear more about this, over 2,400 jobs gone over night in the middle of this year:

    MEDIA STATEMENT Swan Services Pty Limited - Administrators Appointed

    Any handouts for these people?


    Ford and Holden thrived for years on Government charity, the business model was flawed from the 1980s. What makes it worse, and this is endemic of Government since WW 2 is that no one seems to be accountable for spending OUR money. The cash was gifted to Holden and Ford.....without any guarantee they would produce cars that were even suitable for our market. Not to mention a feeble and unsound export policy. No market research, nothing. Just a wild stab in the dark and hope for the best. I suppose because they didn't have to.

    So they continue to build vehicles that the public don't want. I haven't driven a VF Commodore, it's probably very good, but that's not the market and Holden were very, very irresponsible producing it.

    As for the workers, that's a shame, of course the blame game has started and the entitlement mentality socialists are quick to point the finger. I don't see the problem however, any of these workers could have taken on night school or re-training in a more marketable discipline (And subsidised by the Government BTW).

    Surely, they were aware that their jobs were hardly secure, or did they all have their heads in the sand hoping the Government would pick up the pieces when the house of cards collapsed? Can't see the unions being any use either, with their militant and destructive conduct they're the cancer on productivity and worker well being, ironic really, the very people they claim to be representing for the better.
     
  20. rob_london_sydney

    Oct 22, 2005
    223
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    Rob M
    I guess the Swan collapse rates less important, in part, because those roles can be replaced without any heavy capital requirements. If I could be blunt, here in my suburb of Dee Why, we have Korean cleaners who do a brilliant job, for less than anyone else. I suspect the void can, and will, be filled easily.

    As for the workers who've lost out, yes, I feel for them. I've lost my job a number of times, and it sucks. My only real discussion point on that is that these people have a pretty long time, so maybe they can retrain, go to uni and do some classes, go to TAFE, whatever it takes. If they choose to sit back and do nothing for 4 years and THEN complain, well, at THAT time, they'll get no sympathy from me.

    That might sound harsh, but life is harsh. If you want something, go out and get it. You only get one chance at life, so step up.
     
  21. wrxmike

    wrxmike Moderator
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    Mar 20, 2004
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    There are industries that have been subsidised because they have been strategically important to Australia. This is why we still have a naval shipbuilding industry in Australia, why subs are going to be built here etc.
    The automotive industry provided the foundation for a vast array of related industries and skills that has a multiplier affect through the economy. Not that all leading manufacturing countries are able to produce motor vehicles, ships and planes "in country"
    We lost the ability with planes some time ago... but I digress

    In a lot of cases its cheaper to subsidise the industry, than to pay to pick up the pieces
    M
     
  22. greg246

    greg246 F1 World Champ
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    Jun 2, 2004
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    Yes, exactly.
     
  23. Steve355F1

    Steve355F1 F1 World Champ
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    Aug 26, 2011
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    Ummm... The factory is going to close in 2017.
    These workers have just been given FOUR YEARS notice that they will no longer have a job.
    How does that compare to the average worker who is laid off?

    I find the whole media circus and drama an absolute joke and an insult to the tens of thousands of workers in other industries who lose their jobs every year.

    Why are these people so special? They have been massively overpaid and underworked for years, producing crap cars that no-one wants, while endlessly holding their hand out to the taxpayer.
    Well, you've now got FOUR YEARS to do something else. Consider yourselves lucky (again).

    And as for the lefties trying to blame this on Abbott, the mind boggles. Truly, it does.
    Their chutzpah knows no bounds.
     
  24. moretti

    moretti Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Nov 1, 2003
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    I also said the same thing about QANTAS workers but they weren't protected as much as this lot.

    There have been LITERALLY 100s of 000s of IT workers ditched around the world and all they get is a mention on page 55 of the local rag if they're lucky
     
  25. Horse

    Horse Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 1, 2005
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    Jon
    Yep, once we learned the "switch it off and back on again" trick you guys were out of a job!
     
  26. greg246

    greg246 F1 World Champ
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  27. moretti

    moretti Four Time F1 World Champ
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    nobody said it was rocket science
     
  28. ozziindaus

    ozziindaus F1 Veteran
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    Aug 16, 2012
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    I'm not surprised. Australia has ridiculous labour laws and tax structure not to mention its reliance on the resource industry. As an Aussie living abroad, my home has become "a great place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there".
     

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