Honda buy into BAR and ditch Richards

I guess the future will tell...

/Peter

 

It doesn't make sense at all. RedBull should hire Richards.

 

thats a surprising move. unless there is a story behind the scenes that we dont know about. richards seemed like a pretty effective team manager.

 

Looks like Honda thinks that the improvement from 2004 should be credited toward Prodrive instead of Richard. The other thing that could be caused this may have been the fact that Honda does not want to risk losing Button, as he was unhappy with his paycheck, which Richard was unwilling to re-structure, thus created this whole "Where in the World is Jensen Button, BAR or William ?" situation.

 

well jv and button must be laughing

 

Very much so. Richards had two major issues with his top drivers within one year. In a world where it matters a good deal that the driver feels connected to the team, this does not reflect well on the team manager.

 

Considering last year only, he looks like a hero. But if this had happened exactly one year ago, no one would question it. I seriously doubt he had as much to do with this past season's success as some might think. He's probably a nice enough guy and he certainly was living a life most of us would love, but he wasn't Superman.

 

Anybody who knows anything about Honda, knows that when HRC gets into the picture, winning comes next. Period. Honda Racing Corporation does nothing but racing, and has only done that since Mr. Honda set it up in 1959. It is the most winning racing entity in the world. Period. Watch this team, sooner rather than later, smoke everyone. They won't have it any other way, and they've got the money and assets to make it happen. Only other compnay to be set up that way (and it was patterned after Honda) is Ducate Corse.

Art

 

Good. Bring'em on. Finally a worthy opponent for Ferrari and Schumacher. Would be nice to see him actually fight for his eigth title.

 

Honda is a racing company. I don't much like them, I think ther're bullies, but man do they win. Did it in Motorcycles, F1 (in the 80s), CART, sportscars, etc. Whatever they attempt, they'll put in whatever is needed to make sure that they win. Their a bit stuck on themselves, but my money is on them, maybe not next year, but for sure the year after.

They have the motor technology, if you look at the recent SAE patents on motor technology, you'll see their name, again and again. Should be a great fight.

Art

 

Its going to take a lot to smoke Ferrari. Honda will need a great car and a great driver. They don't have either right now but they ARE close.

 

I agree with that. But we might be witnessing the beginning of a new era. By the time the dream team at Ferrari goes into retirement, Honda might have ramped up its game and will be the contender to beat. 2000YELLOW360 is right, once Honda decided to join the club in the eighties, they became unstopable. It could happen again. Things tend to go up and down in F1.

 

If Honda were to unlashes it's total focus on F1 Ferrari wouldn’t stand a chance. The only other manufacturer that could go toe to toe with them resource wise is Toyota. Just look at all of the other racing venues both of these companies are involved in at the moment and look at Ferrari. If they had the single series to focus on as Ferrari does it would be game over for everyone else.

Renault packs some serious engineering prowess but at the moment their auto sales are terrible. They may not have the cash to continue the effort. Unless they badge the team as Nissan, which is larger and now moving into the black.

The change over may well happen before the current Ferrari faction retires. I'm hoping for a good fight next year!

Of course I said that at this time last year as well...

 

Speaking of which, a certain Italian young gun just gave hrc's ego a serious (and much needed) reality check; then again, that's what happens when The Doctor comes out to play and your company line is "it's the machine, not the man."
PS: Art - you hear that Ducati's gonna run Bridgebricker, err, Bridgestones this season in AMA superbike? What'dya think?

 

As for Honda buying into BAR It was only a matter of time; Honda's been keeping their investment in BAR at a mild simmer, and now that it's to a point where a stronger factory association can garner honda an easier re-entry into f1, with a leading chassis, they're all for it. The bid to only buy 40%, in my guesstimation, is temporary, once the cars begin leading from p1 to podium, it'll mark the begining of a full factory honda f1 effort. If BAR/Honda stays on the ball during winter testing, Ferrari's in for it and Renault, McLaren et al, will have a hard scrap for P3 through P6.
"The three most feared words in motorsport : Powered By Honda."

 

Interesting move. We'll definitely have to keep a keen eye out on them in the off-seaon and as the '05 season begins.

 

Honda buying out BAR is not in response to going directly after Ferrari. They are doing it to go after Toyota...

 

Ducati sent over two guys to run the last two races in the US. Works riders, they finished, I think 3, 4th at VR. They were running Michelins. I suspect that Michelin will run on the Ducatis here and we will get to see Ducati Crose, not Austin Ducati running the bikes. I represent a few of the folks involved, and so I'd better keep my mouth shut.

As for Honda decided to make a serious effort: it isn't just the assets, its the attitude. They'll do what is necessary, and that means exactly what it says: they play to win, and won't allow anything, I mean anything, to get in their way. It may be a contest next year, but I suspect in two years it won't even be close. An example: when the Hondas were winning in CART, nobody could understand how they had so much power, 60HP more than the Fords, and a huge advantage over Toyota. Ganassi decided to take Toyota's money, and switched from Honda to Toyota. Toyota then hired Honda's chief mechanic away. Guy looked that their motors, started laughing: boy are you guys dumb: Honda designed the intrake manifold so that the area under the pop-off value was a low pressure area, which effectively gave them another 2, 3 inches of boost, which of course was their HP advantage. CART then changed the rules, made that design unlawful, and their engines were at an advantage again, that is until they'd figured out how to make more power, either inside or outside the rules.

Yep, Rossi embarassed them, but it was more than just him. What happened was that Honda got a little full of themselves, decided it wasn't the team, it was just the bike. Reduced the Championship bonus money to the team from 100k per guy to 50k per guy. When Rossi left, he took them with him, personally paid the extra 50k each to the 6 guys on the team. Honda was pissed, and since their agreements went to the end of the year, wouldn't let him practice, or the team speak to Yamaha until 1/1/04. There was a good time had by all when Rossi wrapped it up this year. He may be one of the very best ever. This month's roadracing world (Issue out to the A list, on the newstands in about 1 week) has a great article with pics of his winning.

Art

 

Thanks for keeping me up to date.
I'll be looking for the issue of RRW soon.
PS: I'm back on track, on 2 wheels in '05 - your ribs heal yet? Cause I'm ready to get the number plates sucked off my rig by your GSXR.

 

Putting the bike back together, but I think that Chris Ulrich is going to ride it, try to win the Formula Pacific title. I'm going to ride an endurance race or two, and we'll see. Wife has issues with me riding again.

Art

 

Ah. Chris Ulrich? Any relation to John @ RRW?
I could see why the wife has her reasons for pause.
Take care.

 

IMO, there are three things that could give Honda a manufacturers' championship:

1. Ferrari management being "asleep at the switch"
2. A catastrophic event, robbing Ferrari of the talent they have or resources in place today
3. Rules changes in favor of compromising Ferrari's accomplishments.

Admittedly as a Scuderia Ferrari fan I am biased. But consider what Ferrari have done over the last ten years, and how they have outpaced the traditional challengers in that time period. They have completely transformed the company and the team and now have a lot more in place and at stake than they had when the cars had small sponsor names on them. It could be said that a lot of others have the same stake in the game but in terms of longevity in the game, most of them are transient - Honda and Toyota included. Ferrari has assembled solutions for every challenge in this sport, with the exceptions of how to take the risk out of driving and how to go F1 racing on the cheap. Honda has the deep pockets and they can acquire the skill, but they are going to have to beat Ferrari at their own game. The new era could start now, but it starts with Ferrrari having run a near perfect season.

A changing of the guard at Ferrari could put this all at risk. But I don't envision the management team that assembled this winning machine, packing up and going out to pasture. The succession plan will most likely not be designed to accept a second class effort against Honda and the rest of the F1 competitors.

A rules change is certainly possible and any move to reduce displacement is a move in favor of Honda or any other small bore specialists.

A lot of this could be called wishful thinking by a Ferrari biased fan so we'll have to see how this shapes up. But as boring as it is to see the red cars with the Prancing Horse leading the pack race after race, I am not resigned to seeing this change very soon. And Honda and Toyota will have to work hard just to stay within striking distance. How long traditionally do Japanese companies stay uncompetitive before bailing?

 

tuttebenne, a few remarks:

- I think a lot of the current Ferrari success has to do with Michael Schumacher and the talent he groups around him. Most of those folks will leave after 2006. Whether Rubens will stay or not is meaningless IMHO.

- Ferrari currently dominates, but the margin is still realtively small. Look at a midyear race to get the best feel for the margin. It ain't that big.

- F1 is cyclical. Just look at the past of all great teams. They went up and down.

As a fan I'm not sad to see a change. A few years without constant Schumacher victories will wet my appetite again. Right now it is like eating dessert all day long.

 

Ditto.