Honda engine now better than Renault

Ahh, cheers; didn't know. So Ferrari have in effect three teams...clever, but maybe they should focus a little more on making one really good. (Reminiscent of the documentary I watched last night on the rise and fall of RBS/ Fred the Shred!)

 

Every single Renault-powered team has scored more points than TR/Honda this season. Both TRs embarrassingly exited Russia with braking issues that sure looked like sudden rear end lock ups to me which could also indicate more Honda powertrain issues. Add in that McLaren and Honda said the same thing about Honda powerplants constantly only to walk back on it later all last season and I think I'd rather see some proof at this point than hear even more bold claims.

 

Yes, the 2x DNF for TR was rather eyebrow raising. Brakes? Cover story for other issues? Who knows, but regardless, TR and Honda (and Red Bull) gotta be a little concerned about next season implications without some solid on track power unit performance.

 

We've seen this before where a car's rear wheels lock-up prior to the turn (HAAS 2017).

So it's the MGU-K, DRS and the braking all trying to work together (software and fly-by-wire braking) and eventually "something does'nt click" and it locks up the rear wheels. This only happens when all 3 systems are working simultaneously. Add to that that both cars got a new spec 3 then reverted back to a spec 2 for the race but kept some other updated components.

By the way, HAAS is'nt the only team to experience these "lock-ups."

 

It's all very interrelated for certain. Ericsson comes to mind as also having a recent share of "braking" into DRS-induced fun at Monza and Silverstone. With all the complexities, I just wonder how much of the TR troubles are systems integration issues vs Honda issues. There are probably more than a couple engineers and tech reps pointing fingers at each other. Red Bull is obviously the best of the non-works teams, so perhaps they have an edge on getting it all put together for 2019. Although If they do, I will miss Max's bleeped-out rants on team audio.

 

I get the feeling Red Bull's A-team will be able to properly harness and mold the Honda power unit. Honda has more resources than anyone on the field.......combined. I believe Honda were just missing the correct partner to make it all work.

 

This right here ^^^

This is the biggest question going into 2019. As always, I'm tifoso, but this Honda/Red Bull hook-up is mega.

 

Do I recall a few forum members predicting that Honda would kick ass this season? Just wait until next year!

 

Honda is not close to fielding Mercedes or Ferrari power. They are running out of test races. A Red Bull can only go so fast and be reliable. Have Honda shown utter reliability thus far. No not to me.

 

I certainly agree they don't have and probably will never have same power, but it's difficult to know whether that was entirely Honda's fault considering their first partner which has been a mismanaged disaster for years now. Red Bull's design paradigm is very different than Ferrari/MB which are sort of 'brute force' cars. Red Bull has had to go the finesse direction with less drag, and it has treated them pretty well so far. With just a bit more power I think Red Bull will be a major problem again. It's why we watch right.

 

Yes we do watch and keenly at that lol. I think we don't give Ferrari or Mercedes enough aero credit. Red Bull as clever as they are via Newey, need more power to be effective at all circuits.

 

Good points.

Suspension tuning to suit drivers, and different aerodynamics package.

The drivers reported long pedal travel and no front brakes, therefore the thing they could do to slow the cars was to lock the rear. Could it have been a hydraulic failure?

All the best,
Andrew.

 

I think it's worth noting that Red Bull seems to have the most issues with the Renault powertrain. In the past it's been said it was due to packaging issues and Red Bull reluctance to change to different parts as recommended by Renault. If they continue down that road I don't see how it will be any better with Honda.

 

Interesting. Gosh, it'd be awesome if RedBull + Honda would become the new power house of F1. With Max gunning for the WDC.

 

I don't quite agree with that. They are probably close to being equal right now, with Renault having a slight edge. The difference is their trajectories.........the Honda is moving towards being a front runner, while the Renault seems to have plateau'ed, or is only very slowly improving.

 

You would think that after this much time in the new formula some would be closer to the Merc. I know the today package is important, not just the engine.

 

TR cars had brake problems last race due to massive PU gains; the brakes couldn't contain the the wild horses breaking free from their shackles...seriously don't bet against Honda....

 

That's a good spin on the facts . . .

 

Honda looks like they delivered a respectable update at Suzuka. TR P6 and P7, at the very least Q3-worthy while McLaren...

 

I think his tone at this point is more along the lines, "I don't care! We're not fighting for the WDC. Ferrari isn't either! So, I'm happy to be doing other things next year."

And besides, Mclaren hasn't been updating the car since maybe Singapore?

 

I am quite shocked that we really have seen zero progress from McLaren since making the shift to the Renaults - ZERO! I fully expected them to be running with the Red Bulls this year. It is quite tragic, really.

 

https://www.planetf1.com/news/from-q3-to-no-points-horror-for-honda-and-str/

About that engine and its superiority lol

 

I do not see anything abouot the engine in that article... they talk about bad strategy and problems with the tires and grip on the different stints...