Honestly, you cannot tell me that Ferrari and MS haven't killed F1

Yeah i agree with you there Pete.
Your absolutly right, no-one is even talking about the next GP.
Does anybody remember that GP where MS came first as usual, but when Monday came and when the podium was packed up, Michaels trophy was still sitting behind the podium????
Got too many trophies Michael??

 

No-one's added it yet so I better throw in the standard F-Chat replies:

I remember when ferrari was hopeless in the early 90's blah, blah, blah, blah
It's up to everyone else to raise their game blah, blah, blah
It's the lack of competition that's hurting the sport, not Ferrari's dominance blah blah blah
We should sit back and marvel at the Ferrari mastery, it won't last forever blah, blah, blah

What did I miss?

I will admit the whole race has turned into a bunch of test laps with what appears like way too many pitstops inbetween, which isn't the fault of Ferrari.

 

no, I think Hungary was boring but the previous race was great so it all comes down to perpective.

iF EVERY RACE WAS LIKE hOCKENHEIM THEN WE WOULD BE HAPPY AS THERE WAS SOME GENUINE RACING going on there..oops sorry I accidently hit the caps key and turned into brother BRUCE

I love McLaren going down the gurgler, every monday I have to be in a meeting with a McLaren loving bint who thinks the sun shines out of RDs' arse and it's so nie to ask who won last weekends race

Get with the score Pete, do you want to see us lose ?? not me ...

 

Blah blah blah, are you still beating on that drum? Talk about boring.....

 

All other teams have killed F1. They have not done what is possible to win < period
Racing is black and white. Either you are leaving black marks around the track or you are sitting behind the pit wall pretending to have the flu because you can't get to the top. Is it Bush's fault he won the election? Is that ruining politics? Head firmly planted in a$s? Or just trying to stir a pot with frozen water?

 

Ferrari's dominance and the alterations of the race tracks themselves have sapped the passion out of the sport.

When we look at F-1 grids and tracks as late as the 80s, we saw at least
a dozen cars with a chance of winning on tracks which featured hair rasing
turns and long straight aways where the cars could reach sustained top speeds of over 200MPH.

Now, when F-1 comes to Indy, for example, the criticisim is that the front
straight is "too long" as if the Indy layout is not clinical and sterile enough.
The alteration of the Hockenheimring makes no sense at all. What was wrong
with the old layout? Drivers, each to a man, stated they loved the old layout as even Senna said it gave him "a feeling of freedom". Now they run the touring car layout at Hockenheimring which is about as boring as watching paint dry.

The problem to my eye is the whole F-1 experience has become too sterile and thus predictable. The notable exceptions of tracks which have kept their original character being Spa and Monza but even the near constant tinkering with the Monza layout is becoming absurd.

The fact that Autosport is reporting allegations of collusion between Ferrari and the FIA is a sad reflection of the state of politics in F-1 currently. And, with teams like Jaguar said to be on the brink of pulling out, F-1 should be doing all it can to keep teams on the grids but instead they are cow towing to the wishes of the Scuderia to the point now where Jean Todt is being mentioned as the successor to Max Mosley.

The state of top level racing around the world is tenuous at best.

BHW

 

yeah, why don't you complain to Ron Dennis and Frank Williams - they admit they have fallen after making up some ground. You complaining about this is like saying that Arsenal have ruined the premiership because they have not lost in like 40 something games??? To take the football analogy further, take a look at chealski, roman has thrown more money at that team than many other teams combined and still has no silverware in the trophy case, I agree ferrari makes it look easy but its not and that is what is so great about it.

 

I really think RB would have to at least get close to MS to be a threat with or without team orders. That rarely happens.

 

"... with Ferraris continual insistence to ensure RB cannot challenge MS, then Ferrari have added to the boredom."

Really, huh ? Okay, RB may be excellent (and I like him to win, too), but MS is consistently better than him. Between himself (RB) and Ferrari, his greater "obstacle"
to winning is himself.

 

F1 requires a sophisticated viewer that doesn't really concentrate on wins and loses that much anyway...nor the media hype or lack thereof of upcoming races. F1 is about the technology and how it can be developed for speed, braking, handling and even fuel economy within the confines of the limits of the human body, i.e. driver. The manufacturers also like the technology transferance to road cars to help sales . Entertainment only became a major factor when the cost got so high that it was necessary to fund the drivers,cars and tracks...thanks a pantload Bernie. It is queer though that back before the money became so important, the racing was more exciting and thus more entertaining, but once the money became important, the entertainment went down. You must love technology to love F1. If you watch an F1 race merely to be entertained, you will be better off watching SpongeBob Squarepants, a fine piece of media art I might add.

 

I dont think McLaren or Williams are as squeaky clean as you make it out to be. They have occasionaly done stuff which favoured one driver over another.

For instance Williams made David Coulthard who was leading a couple races in 1994 (his first season) give up the lead to Damon Hill. This was during the races where Michael's Bennetton was suspended. Williams was the dominant car that year.

Williams also favored Jones over Reutemann in 1980 when Jones won the WDC

Mclaren made DC forgo the win at Jerez '97 to give Mika his first win. Though they weren't as dominant.

Sure i agree with you the Prost Senna battle was the golden age. But Mclaren have rarely had two drivers that were truely equal other than the two mentioned above.

Mclaren's car development for many years favored Mika Hakkinen. I remember Coulthard complaining that the car was too pointy for him. In fact DC gloated at the end of 2001 that now Mika is gone the car would be set up to his liking. (Little did realize that Mika's protege would give him an ass-whipping and keep the status quo).

Also last season there was a wet/dry race where they deliberately kept Coulthard out on the wrong tyres to figure out the exact moment to have Kimi come in for the appropriate tyres.

Note: I am not saying that Ferrari is blameless. I feel outraged in the Austria -gate incident and the subsequent Indy trade. That should not have happened.

But I feel that the other teams are also guilty of such infractions though to a much lower degree. Its just that the current run of Ferrari domination makes one ignore the past. It is like shooting ducks in the bathtub.

The Ferrari rule of fighting for position till 2/3 the race has been adopted by Mclaren as well. Williams would do it but Monty will have none of that.

 

Great call Speedy. I think many chose to have selective memories, or were not even around during the periods they are referencing. Look at the McLaren domination of the 80's. Gosh, that was horrid!!! (note sarcastic tone) I just hated seeing all those white and red rolling Marboro ads finishing first all the time. bored bored bored bored bored..... Oh, but see THAT was ok, because you know the Brits invented F1! (please note sarcastic tone again) F1 is in total shambles today because there is only ONE English driver (DC does not count)!!!! Oh the injustice of it all!!!! AND McLaren and Williams are stumbling - oh woe is me!!! But being beaten by some Italians and a German - I shudder to think about it!!!!!! I'm sure that all the folks at F1 Magazine are joining Nigel on the roof to jump to their ultimate demise. (Please, before you fire up the torches, I am just trying to to show that a lot of the hubbub is due to the perspectives of the media, fans, and constructor's origin.)

For those of you not born yet, not old enough, or just a recent fan - please watch F1 Decade (for those in the US). Full field (remember that!), exciting start, numerous engine detonations, and our heros finishing 1-2 AGAIN (minutes, if not laps ahead)! You guys can get all romantic about how racing was pure and good and how half the field had a chance of winning, but I know better. Yes, there were those epic battles that people love to talk about. But there were always dominating drivers and/or teams. Probably an easy 99% of the "good old" races would be considered boring - based on this elusive yet-to-be-defined "entertainment" value that seems to be so important to some. Yes MS and F are on a hellofa run. The planets have aligned and all is good at SF. Don't worry, all you bored to death fans, I think with all the driver realignments and teams on the move, next year will be a stunnah (as in upset)!

Oh gosh, the poor downtrodden RB and the F conspiracy theory rears it's ugly head once again - give it a rest man!

Jim

 

I have found F1 very exciting this year. To see what a small company such as Ferrari can do with technology against corporate giants such as BMW, Mercedes, Jaquar a/k/a Ford, Honda, Toyota and Renault is amazing! And the athelitic abilities of MS makes one wonder how much longer he can continue at that pace. F1 has never been more exciting than it is now IMHO.

 

was soccer ever exciting?

 

damn, I agree Frank!

Just look at the inequities here and marvel at how Ferrari have done so well.

The English garagisti and their German engine cohorts should be flogging the poor boys from Maranello who do the WHOLE lot themselves and STILL beat the corporate giants.

My prediction is thatToyota and Jaguar will not be around in 5 yearsno matter what diatribe they spew forth now.

 

^^ Actually rubens surprised me last year at Suzuka (a MS track) by outperforming him. This is another MS track so perhaps lightning might strike again. Poor guy is due a win. Possibly MS will gift him this one and take the WDC in Monza?

 

Obviously the dominance by Ferrari and Schumi have made it a foregone conclusion. Agreed.

But:
The boredom of F1 is not just the "fault" of Ferrari. There are a lot of other factors:

- Aeros prevent easier passing
- Stupid Safety car regulations prevent red flagging a race and restarts
- Stupid Safety car regulations even prevent a standing start - as seen in Spa a couple of years ago, I couldn't believe my eyes, thought I was in IRL Lala land - under rainy conditions, hello, this is F1 not some kid go kart
- Tracks designed with a ruler like Nuerburgring, yawn
- Idiotic TV coverage that focuses on the leader instead of showing the action in the midfield
- Boring TV coverage overall, say what you want about NASCAR, but remotely controlled TV cameras on the cars when passing, how cool is that?
- Suffocating rules that ban a driver if he causes a big accident - has been quietly put in place a few years ago after a series of start accidents -
- Drivers who don't speak their minds anymore

So don't put the blame squarely on Ferrari.

What is ironic is, that somebody like Bernie who partially killed the charme of the sport by commercializing it, doesn't realize that there are some really easy solutions to bring back viewership: Fix all of the above and/or

drumroll:

Reversed grid

 

That's an aspect of the psychological side of competition which interests me... care to elaborate?

 

____________________
Yeah, Suzuka was great. But Silverstone was even better! Remember when RB chased Kimi until the latter made a mistake, got into the grass, and was finally overtaken?!
That is just one race I wouldn't forget.