While I understand the Red Bull - Benetton comparisons, there are orders of magnitude between them: RBR is the 7th constructor (5th if you count the active ones) with most starts, 5th with more podiums and the 4th with most wins = 8 drivers' and 6 construtors' titles Back in 2023 they generated +/- £400M in revenue and had a profit of £11M They have their little skunkworks department (RB Advanced Technologies) and they're launching their hyper-car (reportedly sold out) All this in 20 years. While I don't have access to Red Bull parent company accounts, I'm inclined to say the F1 team is their second best-performing department - only after the Drinks department.
People seem to underestimate Mark's (Dietrich's only son) passion for the sport. He attends races more often than not and recently acquired the entire Ecclestone F1 car collection (which he plans to improve). The Thai owners certainly like the glitz of the sport too. No one can predict the future but I'm sure Red Bull will stay for a while in the paddock.
I think the real un raveling is when Dieter Mateschitz died. He was Red Bull, and he had the vision and money and power. Now that he's gone the heirs all think they can do better... sadly I don't think that is the case. Newey wanted a piece of the team... and the heirs said no... so with Aston he gets what he wants... for good or bad. But when you lose the best designer in the last 30 years... its gonna hurt.. I dont know if that is Horner's problem in reality but the perception is when you are at the top, its your responsibility to retain and keep key staff - Drivers, Designers, etc... if you don't there is only one neck to strangle.
+1 This is not a team attracting big talent at all right now. They are on a downward trajectory and have been for 2 years. The major uncertainty is only beginning. The 'rebuilding' wont be sorted for a few months. The end of the season will involve a major re-evaluation and then a plan put forth with new hires and either Mekies stays or goes and the new structure, permanent, comes to life.
I see Max Verstappen has "thanked" Horner for all he has done. Pretty rich as I am sure he and Jos played a part in his departure.
Jos is the toxic element at Red Bull...the typical "show biz" parent, living off the glory of their offspring...and trying to run the Max's career and business dealings, which includes Red Bull. Jos was the source of the "sex scandal" about Horner. He will have Mekies and Red Bull under his thumb. As for Mercedes, with all the big changes in 2026, I don't think Toto needs or wants Max enough to put up with a toxic bully like Jos as part of the management team. Nor do I think he wants or needs Marko as a part of the package. Without a winning car, Max falls back in the pack...just like anyone else. Russell and Kimi are Toto's best driver choices. Toto's problem is the car. As for Horner...I think he still has a lot to offer and he doesn't need to instantly prove himself to anyone. Alpine could provide him with a new challenge with no pressure to immediately deliver. So could Cadillac, and Haas, and yes...Ferrari. Vasseur doesn't run Ferrari, it runs him. Ferrari needs a strong hand on the helm, in keeping with the Brawn/Todt era. Horner could be that person.
This is joke. He is not this politically inept. Horner says Red Bull sacking "came as a shock" in goodbye speech to staff
Well Horner is more easily replaced and was warned by Jos, who had a good eye for what he was seeing as a failing organization being run by Horner. Im certain Max was keeping Jos well 'in the loop'.
You have to wonder why the sudden firing from Red Bull, right in the middle of the season. If this had happened with a few races left to the season, ok, that's one thing. But now they've got this massive change in the team with half of this season still to go. Management suddenly became irate at Horner over something. It can't be the sex scandal, as that was resolved. If I had to guess, it's got something to do with the Max to Mercedes rumors. Max has either signed or contract, or told Red Bull he intends to, and Red Bull hold him responsible for them losing their star driver. Max has to know he has no future with Red Bull. They're declining. They've lost Newey, Marshal, Wheatley, Perez. The other car can't score points, and Max no longer has a car he's happy with. Mercedes have proven they can ace a PU era, and so he has to be looking at Russel's seat. Makes me think Russel is about to get Sainz'd.
Why would Red Bull leave F1? I could see them stay just to prove that the team is more than one person. Maybe Horner leaving opens up possibilities for talented engineers to be promoted or to move to Red Bull. It’s hard for a sapling to take root in the shadow of a giant oak…
Two senior Horner allies immediately depart Red Bull too Jul 9, 2025 by Jon Noble, Scott Mitchell-Malm The shock departure of Christian Horner as Red Bull Racing CEO and Formula 1 team principal has been accompanied by the exit of two other senior figures. Group chief marketing and commercial officer Oliver Hughes and group director of communications Paul Smith (pictured above, with Horner) are understood to have been relieved of their duties. Removing two senior figures who had been put at the top of their respective groups by Horner suggests Red Bull's parent company in Austria wants to unpick the way Horner centralised operations at Milton Keynes and install its own leadership in those respective departments. That would supports a long-standing effort by Red Bull GmbH to exert more control over the management of its F1 operations - which comprises Red Bull Racing, Red Bull Technology and Red Bull Powertrains - since the death of co-founder Dietrich Mateschitz, who had empowered Horner to establish a sprawling empire at Milton Keynes and take day-to-day responsibility of it.
I think the reason they let Horner go was because RedBull has turned into team Verstappen is the main reason. Sure, key people have left like Newey, Wheatley and Marshal within the past year but to only have a very talented driver like Max and solely build the car around him doesn't build for team progress when Perez, Lawson and Tsunoda have failed with the #2 car i.e. not scoring points for the team. Horner CANNOT focus on just "Team Max" and build the team around Max. That's where Horner lost it given the past year with key people leaving and drivers not mounting to much in the #2 car. It's a Catch-22 situation and the owners and board of RedBull I believe have made that clear with the sudden firing of Horner. Horner just lost the vision of what RedBull really is.
100% I'm surprised more don't see this. Jos is the toxic problem that needs to go from F1. I hope this all backfires big time on red bull. Wild that they would fire Horner so abruptly and mid season.
According to De Telegraaf, Verstappen, his father Jos Verstappen, and his manager Raymond Vermeulen had no role in pushing the British boss out of the Austrian team. The newspaper adds that the decision was made because those in charge no longer had confidence that Horner could turn the tide amid the team's recent poor performances. The move is also said to be an attempt to restore calm among the team's shareholders.
"Makes me think Russel is about to get Sainz'd." ***** Wife asked me who would get axed for Max. I said Kimi but maybe Max and George would be a toxic combination.
For sure it's going to be Max and Antonelli SHOULD Max jump ship from RedBull and into MercedesAMGF1.
Clear the Newey exit was huge for results hence. Not CH fault when the owners wouldn't give Newey equity.... but that was the watershed/tipping point. Max the final crash point.
More food for thought. I wonder if this decision will actually help Max to decide to leave Red Bull, if he hasn't already. I never saw a poor relationship between Max and Christian, even if Jos did. They always seemed very respectful of each other, Horner always seemed to have Max's back, at least in public. As @DF1 mentioned above, I can't help wonder if this was a power play against Horner from the top suits at Red Bull GmbH. It wouldn't be the first time that some pencil pusher makes a rash decision based on power or money. In fact it's a very common play in extremely wealthy businesses. At this point in 2025, Red Bull is bleeding quality employees, their car is bottom 5 when it's not driven by Verstappen. So if Verstappen leaves, they will be fighting just to get out of Q3. Forget about wins and championships. Maybe they felt it was a good time to clean house. One thing that seems evident, is once Dietrich passed away, things have changed rapidly. The motorsports side of Red Bull was kind of Dietrich's baby, along with Helmut Marko. Once Marko leaves for whatever reason, are the bean counters at Red Bull going to make some serious changes their motorsport and action sports all in order to increase profits?
I don't see Max leaving Red Bull now that Jos has gotten rid of Horner. Leaving for Mercedes wouldn't offer Max a guarantee of a winning seat in 2026 any more than staying at Red Bull. And isn't Max a little old to have daddy holding his hand at every race. I've always felt the same way about Hamilton's dad being there all the time. Add to that Bearman and Lando...all these moms and dads are making F1 look like Little League Baseball.
in the back of my mind when Horner said last weekend that ''Red Bull doesn't need Max, we have a very strong foundation and team", it sounds to me that Max must've informed him he's leaving the team, and Red Bull now sacked horner as it was the last straw. They've lost SO MANY people in the last 2 years
