Hot Battery, Smoking and Smells | FerrariChat

Hot Battery, Smoking and Smells

Discussion in '456/550/575' started by Genyosai, Oct 26, 2013.

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  1. Genyosai

    Genyosai Formula Junior

    May 28, 2008
    501
    SC
    Full Name:
    Nicholas
    I have an Interstate battery in my 550 that's only 1 year old. I did a lot of work to my car recently... car was apart for 3 months and I didn't place the battery on a trickle charge. When everything was done, the car started just fine. However, today, I drove the car quite a bit. It was parked in the sun for a few hours and when I started it again, both batter indicators came on. I took the chance on driving it home (30 miles) and made it without issue.... other than the growing smell of battery sulphur. When I got home and parked in my garage, the "High Water Temp" indicator came on as well, yet the temp gauge read normal and the fans were running. When I opened the hood to check the battery, I found it was extremely hot to the touch, bulging on both sides, and smoking and "spitting" acid from the battery ventilation.

    So.... can an alternator over charge? I had the alternator rebuilt 3 months ago be cause it stopped charging. Also, could this high water temp indicator be falsely triggered because of the charging issue taking place... considering the temp gauge reads normal, the temp sending unit is new as are the two temp sensors that trigger the fans?

    Thanks!
     
  2. 166&456

    166&456 Formula 3

    Jul 13, 2010
    1,723
    Amsterdam
    Sounds like it is overcharging indeed. The voltage regulator on the back of it is most likely the culprit. Be sure to properly wash off all that acid with acid and perhaps some soda.
     
  3. philfrench

    philfrench Karting

    Jan 3, 2012
    104
    France
    Maybe the original Nippon Denso alternator is a better item;i prefered to buy this oem part than adaptable tension regulator maybe not safe (tension regulator bad)
     
  4. Genyosai

    Genyosai Formula Junior

    May 28, 2008
    501
    SC
    Full Name:
    Nicholas
    Thanks, guys. This battery has a 30 month replacement warranty. I'm going to take it back tomorrow and let them load test it. I'm hoping, as suggested elsewhere on the forum, that the battery has a bad cell and the alternator simply overcharged it as a result.

    Once I get the new battery, couldn't I put my volt meter on the car while it's running to measure the alternator output? What range should I read, or rather, at what point should I recognize an overcharging alternator?

    Thanks!
     
  5. Genyosai

    Genyosai Formula Junior

    May 28, 2008
    501
    SC
    Full Name:
    Nicholas
    Once the battery cooled down, I used it to start the car again, then measure the voltage at idle. I think it's safe to say that 19v is too high!!
     
  6. 166&456

    166&456 Formula 3

    Jul 13, 2010
    1,723
    Amsterdam
    #6 166&456, Oct 27, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2013
    Obviously I meant washing any acid on the car, chassis components etc, off with water and maybe some soda to neutralise it. Battery acid is nasty stuff.
    Yes 19volts is way way too high. You're taking large risks, too high voltage can damage electronics like nothing else, so I would take no chances, and not restart the car anymore without actions taken. As alternators are generally not expensive, especially when compared with the risk of damaging expensive electronics, I would seriously consider changing out the alternator, or at the very least its regulator, and if you opt to keep this alternator would favor to have it completely tested before putting it back into service.
    And replace the battery no matter what, I would never demand starting current from or put any charge back on a bulging battery, as it can still do damage.
    Is the cooling hose from the undertray properly attached?

    EDIT: When starting the car with its new battery and new/overhauled alternator, do so with lots of power consumers on (lights, rear window heater, blower motor), as it will keep down voltage should the overcharge condition for whatever reason still be present.
     
  7. ar4me

    ar4me F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Apr 4, 2010
    3,114
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Jes
    You probably just need to replace the voltage regulator, and it will be fine. Replace voltage regulator, start car, and measure charging voltage to verify. Not familiar with the 550 and whether it is possible to replace without disassembly...
    Jes
     
  8. philfrench

    philfrench Karting

    Jan 3, 2012
    104
    France
    At last the oem alternator is a good way ;and you ll get a waranty because it s the Nippon Denso genuine part used and it will last ten years more....
     
  9. Mozella

    Mozella Formula Junior

    Mar 24, 2013
    905
    Piemonte, Italia
    Battery explosions caused by faulting charging are surprisingly common on boats, perhaps because the engine compartments tend to be poorly ventilated. They always cause a mess, frequently cause significant damage, and sometimes serious personal injury.

    Even though battery explosions are seemingly rare in cars, the symptoms mentioned by the OP are pretty frightening. Please don't treat this as some kind of inconvenience. It's potentially dangerous to your car and perhaps to your person. Make SURE you solve the problem sooner rather than later. A bulging battery spitting acid (and hydrogen) is no laughing matter.
     
  10. Genyosai

    Genyosai Formula Junior

    May 28, 2008
    501
    SC
    Full Name:
    Nicholas
    I've just purchased a new battery. Interstate says that the mtp-91 is no longer available, so they gave me an mtp-h6 in its place. I'm teetering between the $625 oem alternator or just replacing the bridge rectifier and voltage regulator. I am a little partial to going brand new. Even perhaps letting Foreign Cars Italia do it. That way, if it failed and caused damage, the damage would be covered as well.
     
  11. philfrench

    philfrench Karting

    Jan 3, 2012
    104
    France

    For few bucks more ,be safe ,take the Oem part Nippon Denso and everything will become okay for the next ten year.
    I had quiet same problems some month ago .I did it so and i enjoy driving without thinking :
    'This adaptable part will maybe fail...or not????
    I paid 750euros and i m happy!!
    Enjoy
     
  12. 166&456

    166&456 Formula 3

    Jul 13, 2010
    1,723
    Amsterdam
    Do a little searching, I have read somewhere before that a particular Nippon Denso alternator for some John Deere was identical to the 550 - and a lot more favourably priced.
     
  13. Genyosai

    Genyosai Formula Junior

    May 28, 2008
    501
    SC
    Full Name:
    Nicholas
    I explored that option, but decided in favor of the quick swap option. This failed alternator happened right on the heels of me finishing the 30k service which took me a while. I'm ready to roll again, so I'm skipping the John Deere solution which requires changing out the bridge rectifier, voltage regulator, and enlarging the hole on one of the mounting ears.
     
  14. 166&456

    166&456 Formula 3

    Jul 13, 2010
    1,723
    Amsterdam
    #14 166&456, Oct 29, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2013
    Well your base mechanical and even electrical parts of the alternator (rotor, coils and probably the rectifier) are probably OK as it is, since it managed to overcharge by such a degree. The charge is regulated by the voltage regulator which modifies the current through the rotor, to influence its magnetism and as such the output current. If the output voltage drops because of increased current demand, the alternator output current is increased by increasing the current through the regulator and rotor, to match the voltage again. Now if the voltage regulator gets damaged and short circuits - because of voltage peaks, excessive heat or otherwise - the rotor will me magnetised to the max because of the high current through it, and the system will overcharge. So 99% sure only the regulator is at fault right now, the biggest question however is what caused it to fail.

    EDIT: Failed isolation diodes in the rectifier for the regulator circuit can cause a similar situation as well if only one of the three isolation diodes has failed, as the regulator uses a voltage created by these as a reference voltage - but then the alternator light would have been slightly on with the engine running (though this might have been difficult to see in the daytime).
     
  15. Genyosai

    Genyosai Formula Junior

    May 28, 2008
    501
    SC
    Full Name:
    Nicholas
    I had the alternator rebuilt while I was performing the major. The alternator was covered in oil and had failed in the opposite manner... wasn't supplying enough voltage. I don't know, but I wonder if the VR was even replaced during the rebuild. If so, then perhaps not the bridge? Or maybe even simply a defective VR or bridge if they were replaced.

    I don't know. I'm just calling it a bad rebuild.

    Though I ordered a new alternator, I intend to replace the bridge and VR on mine and have it tested again. If it tests good, I'll either hold on to it, or sell it for $100 or so.
     
  16. philfrench

    philfrench Karting

    Jan 3, 2012
    104
    France
    It is not the real Nippon denso alternator but an adaptable one.
    Be carefull with this quality .....you can see the result....
     
  17. Genyosai

    Genyosai Formula Junior

    May 28, 2008
    501
    SC
    Full Name:
    Nicholas
    Moorfan has done this swap/mod. In fact, I think he found the solution and has had no trouble with his.
     
  18. philfrench

    philfrench Karting

    Jan 3, 2012
    104
    France
    An alternator problem can become a very important problem as explain on last posts.
    I prefer in this case not´to play with the fire ´ even if Morfan is lucky from now with his adaptable alternator.
     
  19. Genyosai

    Genyosai Formula Junior

    May 28, 2008
    501
    SC
    Full Name:
    Nicholas
    Alternator replaced, battery indicators off, 14.3v measured at idle.

    I think we're good.
     

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