How best to loosen the alternator on a 308?

This weekend, I was working on unbolting stuff to replace the timing belts on my 308. I barely got started when I ran into my first roadblock -- loosening the alternator mount to get the belt off. The alternator is hiding next to the right fuel tank and try as I might, I can't seem to get my arm in there to loosen the bolt. It doesn't help that the nut is facing inward.

Is there a trick to getting this bugger loose? I need to drain the old gas anyhow so I may just pull the tank to get better access. However, it seems like there's a better way to do this.

Also, since I'm in there, I'm going to replace all the fuel and coolant hoses. It's an understatement to say the 308 has many hoses. What a PITA, most of them are really hard to get to. So far, the old hoses don't look too bad -- the worst is the fuel inlet hose:
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Do you have the RR wheel and fender liner removed? Most front of 308 engine work is done via that path rather than from the top.

 

Oh yeah, that fuel inlet hose is major bad!! And if that's gone, you can just imagine what the rest of them are like.

As for the alternator, when I did my '78 two years ago, I pulled the engine, so loosened it with the engine out (just left it in place for removal). But if I recall correctly, it's not that bad loosening or tightening the bolts for the alternator. If you have a long handled box or open end wrench, you should be able to reach it. You have to get a wrench on the other end as well, or once you loosen it a bit, the bolt will simply spin. You must loosen not only the bolt tensioning the alternator on the bracket, but the pivot bolt as well. And the opposite is true also, when you reinstall the belt -- tighten both bolts.

As for the hoses, while you have the driver's side fuel tank out, if you are pulling it, replace the coolant and vacuum hoses that run forward on the driver's side through the rocker panel. With the tank out, you can manipulate the hoses easily. I connected the new hose to the old, and simply pulled them through one at a time, with a friend helping feed the hose from the other end. Now is the time to do it. And don't forget to change the two connector hoses on the tank crossover pipe, and the lower radiator hose in the front.

Have fun with it. You are right, there are a TON of hoses all over the place, so you'll be at it for a while.

 

Alternator smalternator..fix those fuel hoses!!!!!

 

Yes, I've pulled the RR wheel and liner. I can see the bolt on the adjustment bracket, but I just can't seem to get to it. Somehow, I forgot to take a picture of the close quarters next to the alternator. There just doesn't seem to be enough room between it and the fuel tank. I can stick my arm in there and touch the nut on the inward side, but I can't seem to get my arm and a wrench in there.

I thought long and hard on the question of pulling the engine or not. My thinking (at least for now) is to leave it in and try and work around it. In a week or so, I may change my mind. Anyone have a good writeup on how pulling the engine? I'm interested to know what needs to get unbolted first and during the lifting process. It sounds like there's a certain order of things with regards to the front and rear headers.

 

And this "observation" is exactly why so many of these cars go up in flames...How does one tell a good hose from a bad hose, when most are "cloth covered"?

 

Did you drain the coolant and get the coolant pipe out of the way?

Also, there is an exhaust shield, sort of "L" shaped, that can also be easily removed. Then you can reach in from in front of you (from the wheel well) as well as from underneath.

Phil

 

Yep, that's EXACTLY why I'm replacing all of them.

 

Thanks for all the suggestions. I'll see if removing that heat shield helps. Since I need to drain the tanks anyhow, maybe I'll just do it first and remove the right tank for better access.

 

If you are going to the the belts, hoses, etc. it's easier to pull the engine. It will save you a lot of blood -literally. There is no way I would try changing all the hoses with the engine en suite. There are several exellent write-ups on how to pull the engine. This will also give you the opportunity to examine everything and correct anything that's questionable. First time around, it will take you about 8 hours to get the engine on the floor.

 

If your alternator was like mine, they didn't have the bolts put in correctly, or even use the correct parts.

The lower pivot bolt is supposed to remove toward the tank, mine was reversed and I couldn't get it out because it was hitting the dipstick tube, I had to take the bracket off the block.

The tensioner bolt had the nut on the backside and you couldn't get at it at all. I unbolted teh adjust bracket from teh motor and took teh alt and brackets out as a unit.

Major PITA.

It will go back in the correct way, so it it removable, next time. I made a tensioner bolt by milling part of the bottom side of a bolt head off so it captures in the tensioner bar slot, and made a spacer to go in teh hex recess in the front of the alternator, so the nut will be in front.

Doug

 

Eric,

When I went through this two years ago with my '78, I thought about doing the job with the engine in. Very quickly I realized that it would be much, much easier to simply pull the engine, clean up the engine bay, remove the tanks, change all the hoses, do the cam timing, seals, gaskets, belts, etc. out of the car, clean the engine thoroughly, and so on. Removing the engine is not that difficult. Basically you just disconnect anything you find that is attached to the car. Getting the front header out is a bit of a job, but doable. The rear header is pretty easy, as are the half shafts. Once that's done, you can then pull the motor mount bolts out, which we did after we had the engine strapped and ready to lift.

If you have an engine lift and angle adjuster, you strap the heads and tilt the engine toward the front of the car and work it out slowly. It helps to have a couple of friends guiding the engine, and padding the rear window and painted surfaces to prevent damage.

Trust me, you can really do a much better job in a lot less time with the engine out. Just beware of "shipwright's disease" (well, as long as I'm at it, I better replace the framiss; and since I'm doing that, I might as well replace the......). It seems to infect you once you start this kind of project.
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Pull the engine. It will make everything soooo much easier. This will let you clean up the engine bay as well. I assume that you're going to get Verell's injection line kit as well as the other fuel lines. Also think about the shift shaft seals. Oh yeah, carefully inspect the cam belt drive pulley bearings. "Emerging science suggests" there may be a relationship between belt replacement and failure of those bearings.

 

I'm convinced. After trying (unsuccessfully) again to reach the alternator mounting bolt, I decided that you are right. Everything would be easier if I just pull the engine. I looked at the other "pull the engine" threads and I'm going to do it. A lot of stuff has already been unbolted so I'll just keep going. I finished draining the fuel tanks last night and I'm going down the "remove the RR tank and unbolt the headers" route.

Seems like everyone used straps to lift with. I've got a picker and a leveler with chains. Any suggestions on where to lift from? Did you just wrap the straps around the outside or are they actually secured to the engine in some way?

 

What? you don't have to pull the engine out just so you can take out the Alt. unless you really want to.

 

Everybody has hammered you (quite correctly about replacing those fuel lines).

Pulling the engine, is a bit extreme (since this is driving weather) to get the alternator belt
loose. You need a couple extensions (can't remember the socket size) and from underneath the 308, past the 2 1 1/2" tubes there is access to the rear alternator adjust bolt. At least on my GTSi that what I had to do, to adjust the belt.

Sounds like you a well on your way to pulling the engine, since you are going that far don't forget to replace the heater hose and brake vacuum hose that run from behind the fuel tank through the rocker panel. (They have been referred to as the 308 was built around them.)

With your engine out replace the 1 1/2" connecting hoses not forgetting those on the top
of the engine (think intake manifold).

Stephen

 

I'm a newbie at these Fcars and I just finished re-installing the motor and the bolts you speak of ,those that hold the alternator, are reachable with a super long extension from undereneath and an extra (girlfriend) pair of hands to hold the wrench while the bolt is turned from below. The girlfirend is stationed in the RR wheel well! cheers

 

Hello from Germany,

are you guys serious about pulling the engine for replacement of an alternator belt ??
I even considered replacement of the whole alternator as one of the easier jobs on the 308. Time consuming as always, but easy.
Reaching the two corresponding nuts for loosening the alternator is at best from beneath.

And sorry, but this fuel filler hose is shot.

Best Regards

Martin

 

I agree with Martin, I have done it so many times it's a bout a one hour job!! LOL!

But it does sound as if a lot of cars are missing parts or have been re assembled incorrectly, by previous owners.....

 

I have removed and replaced both headers with the engine in, as well......the fuel inlet hose is easily done with the LH fender liner out....it's 'right there"

 

I think maybe the OP just wants to remove the motor, and is looking for any justifiable reason.

Nothing wrong with that, I'm just deducing.

The good thing is pulling the motor does open up all sorts of opportunities.

Of course, the inverse is true as well - the bad thing is pulling the motor does open up all sorts of opportunities.

 

I always vote for "keep on driving"........but he does need to replace the fuel lines....

 

and often a can of worms

Best Regards from Germany

Martin

 

Let me clarify something -- I am most definitely NOT pulling the engine JUST to replace the alternator belt. This car has not run in many years. Before attempting to start it, I am going to:

- change all fluids
- replace all coolant hoses
- replace all fuel hoses
- replace timing belts and tensioners
- replace all accessory belts
- replace leaking seals/gaskets

It's the thought of replacing all the hoses, especially the ones that are barely visible much less accessible, that finally pushed me over the edge.

I'll try to keep the worms at bay.