How Do Prices of TDF and 812 Make Sense?

There is really no comparison between the two cars. My largest pet peeve with Ferrari owners is when they ask me to compare because it shows such ignorance. It would only take a couple minutes in the driver’s seat to realize the entirely different animal that is the TdF.

You can compare the F12 and the 812 until the cows come home. But the TdF is a rare, purpose built, perfect car. For a front engine 12, it is as good as it gets. Throttle response of an 8, less weight, light steering, stunning looks, limited edition.

The 812 and F12, as good as they are, and I currently have both, feel like weighty GT cars. The TdF escapes this by being much lighter with much more driving emotion. I’ve tracked the car twice, hard, with no issues on weight making turns. I’ve shown it at Pebble Beach. I’ve taken it on winding mountain rallys. It is a car that does everything extremely well.

I prefer the nimbleness of an 8 cylinder car but this car is so good, it ranks as my fourth favorite personal Ferrari behind only the FXX, La Ferrari Aperta, and Enzo.

 

Thanks for that, always interesting to read from owners - also that in spite of your preference for 8 cylinder cars, your four favorite Ferrari are 12 cylinder

 

You cant compare these 2 on value because one is a limited edition and the other isnt. That is all really that matters to the market nowadays.

Look at any limited edition F, Porsche, even Mercedes and they will be worth 2x,3x,5x the regular non limited model.

 

This. End of the thread.

 

A few more opinions from those who own both would be interesting.

Dry weight difference while approx 100kgs can be normalized by higher HP and a lighter driver. All I have read on the 812 suggests its closer to the TDF than an F12.

Having owned and F12 (driven extensively) and having driven an 812 in my opinion they are worlds apart.

 

From a market perspective, with zero other changes if the 812 or F12 had the '1 of xxx' badge and the F12 TDF did not, the values would be reversed. Perceived performance is not of consideration.

 

I had a school teacher years ago explain to me that ignorance was by no means an insult. It simply states one does not know about something.

Stupid is an insult because you know, you just cannot seem to put it together. Sort of like a Democrat.

 

You are only partially correct. The price is always going to be influenced by availability (or lack of it) - it’s the basic principle of supply and demand. But to say that the only difference between an F12B and a TDF is the “1 of 799” badge does confirm a significant lack of firsthand experience (or perhaps what was earlier labelled “ignorance”). They are completely different propositions and the TDF is soooo much “more” (I originally wrote “better” but that doesn’t do justice to the F12B or its owners - it’s a wonderful car in its own right).

I have not had the pleasure of driving the 812 yet and must rely on the assessment of those that have driven both, but they do sound different driving experiences from all reports.


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I wasn't comparing the cars. Just answering the OPs question on value. Market value doesn't care about driving experience between production and LE cars which an experienced buyer (opposite of ignorant) should already know.

 

Going to use this line when I need to explain stupidity - especially the Democrat part

 

LE is like a double edged sword. Thus, one thing that is better with 812 and F12 is that they are not LE so you don't have to worry about them and can derive much more driving pleasure by literally drive them until the wheels fall off.

 

Could you make a thread once you receive the FXXK Evo to compare it to the FXX? As someone who has 0 experience with either, i would love to know if the FXX remains your favorite and if yes, is it because it's a more raw (rawer? rougher?) experience?

 

Absolutely! I’ve been told once I get in the K I won’t want to drive the FXX but I just can’t imagine that. I get that it will be more fast and shift more quickly, but the drama and event and sound of the FXX is so invigorating! At the very least, it will be a great car to “retire” to Thermal. Lastly, should you be heading to Goodwood this week, my FXX will be making a run up the hill with a far better driver than me.

 

The two cars are completely different although performance on paper is very similar. The TDF feels more on its toes, lighter, even twitchy, but it also feels quicker and smaller. The 812 is the ultimate GT, the car you’d take on a 1000km drive and arrive fresh and relaxed. I prefer the TDF looks (one of the best looking Ferraris ever in my opinion) and the 812 somehow feels too bulky on the road, even though the size is pretty similar. As an owner of both, I can easily see myself selling the 812, but I cannot even imagine doing that with the TDF. In an ideal world you’d want a TDF, a convertible 812 and a Pista!


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I also cant imagine not wanting the drive the fxx..it seems like such a mental car, and the sound imo is still the best this side of a formula one/F50 GT. Im curious to read your feedback.
Will you drive it also at Goodwood?

 

Just give it a go through the canyon . I was late to order my 812 but should be making some noise in August if we can come in under the break.

 

It seems pricing is driven by rarity only, because the market is "owned" by speculators.
To me the Tdf is (significantly) more desirable than the 812, but the market price is totally disconnected from the real value of the cars.
I'd choose a Speciale over a Speciale Aperta without hesitation (and I think it's a logical decision - a spider is good for a cruising car, for a track oriented car it's just nonsense) - but one needs twice as much money to buy an Aperta, which supports the impression the prices are mainly driven by rarity.
Ferrari is getting aware of the situation, and that's why they now overprice the Pista compared to the GTB - one part of the price increase is to get a better car (this part I'd be happy to pay) and one part is for exclusivity (this part I don't want to pay, I would not care if many people have a car as good as mine - and I am not willing to pay just for the bragging rights of "exclusivity").

 

I think when the YouTubers (Mr. JWW) buys the TDF for videos that’s a sign the market has peaked.

 

I see no basis for that assertion. They are today’s generation of entertainers. You may as well be saying “if Jay Leno buys a TDF, the market has peaked”. There is no logic to your point


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Sometimes I suspect people don't know what the word "compare" means.

 

I will never prefer an 812 over an F12B. 812 Easier to drive at the limit ? Who can possibly drive any of these cars at the limit except at a race track and you had better be a highly skilled race track driver. All three cars are a heavy beast on the track, bested by much lighter, nimbler and cheaper cars. TDF ? I would love one.

 

Just chiming in on this ..now than I own a TDF I will say that the car is entirely different the my stock F12. And seems much more aggressive in throttle and overall responsiveness then the 812 I used at the track event. Definitely can feel the weight difference in the turns ..

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Yes indeed. Most people who have driven the Tdf and 812 back-to-back say the same as you are saying here. The sound and drive dynamic makes the 812 feel tame in comparison.