How do the very late 50's/early 60's cars handle ?

having driven many miles in both early V-12's and the last 3 liter V-12, I would have to say that the early 1950 V-12 drive a bit better than other sport cars of the period and much better than Standard American cars, they are however much more powerful, nothing of the period pulls like a Ferrari V-12.

By the mid Sixties the handlling of the 250 series was really great and easily the best handling car and actually easy to drive, one of the reasons that they won so many victories in sportsman racing. They were simply better than almost every other sports car and worlds apart from a 1965 Standard American car,

However if you compare the best of them, say a 1962 SWB with a modern car
you are going to be disppointed. The SWB had 240 HP at 6,500 RPM and weighted about 3,200 LBS. MY 2002 Subaru WRX has 300 HP and weights
less and will out handle and out corner the SWB all day long. Other tuner
cars are also much faster,better handling, and even easier to go faster in.
It's no contest

MY 250 SWB will keep up with modern traffic and is still fun to drive but in absoulute perfromance, it's not much better than our Ford taurus ,which
is a statement about how far the average car has come in 40 years.


Jeffrey Vogel

 

Amen to Jeff Vogel's post ( and hi, Jeff)! They had plenty of body roll, but so did most cars of the era. There might have been, at any given moment, other sports cars which would out-handle Fazzaz, but none had the combination of that great V-12, overall balance, and strength. (Overlooking the weak clutch, leaking head gaskets on the "inside plug" engines, valve seats succumbing to gravity, and drum brakes that, if in good order, actually slowed the car down). The 250SWB was an enormous improvement over earlier models, in my opinion. Even with their shortcomings (too strong a word?) the early cars were a thrill to drive and own. Try one, you;ll like it!

 

"The 250SWB was an enormous improvement over earlier models, in my opinion."

I don't know... I do very much like driving my 166sc esp. with those leather helmets.

At the FFQC Sal and Jesse had 002C at a buck+ for over an hour. Months later they're still smiling.

 

JAMES, you and your cars are so unique i think both of you get stars and *** exemption *** status!! i bet J6 is a HOOT to drive around in!!

 

Yep...the worst street car of today will drive better than the best street car of 40 year ago....but driving a classic Ferrari (or any other classic car, for that matter) is not about performance.

 

1959 250GT PF Coupe.
It would take either a very experienced race car driver or a complete fool to drive this car on period tires faster than 100 mph.

 

My 330 2+2 handles a lot like my old '66 Pontiac GTO. Comparitively big, heavy and solid, great on the open highway and winding roads. A bear in big city driving because of the lack of power steering. Too big for fast cornering. Excellent sense of control at all speeds (fastest I've had it--110 mph, maybe a little more). Ride firm but not harsh. I have today's replacement for the original Pirelli Cinturatos on and they are probably much better tires all round.

Brakes very good but fade fast after a quick stop or two--probably a result of choosing pads that don't squeal but don't dissipate heat quickly.

Unlike the '66 Goat, the 330 is not a stoplight car. The clutch and trans can't handle dumped-clutch starts and very fast shifts like a Muncie 4-speed. If it could, I have no doubt that it would easily pull 6-second or slightly faster 0-60 times. It's the weak synchros that keep me from keeping up with the ricers. Get it above 50 mph and it is scarily fast--it just keeps sucking air and pulling harder.

 

I second Scott's comments on the 330 acceleration, power and slow speed driving. The 4 liter engine is a bit easier to use that the 3 liter motor. However, mine handles a bit better than Scott described.

The pre Fiat cars were all essentially hand built and are now quite old; therefore each car is unique in many respects including its driving characteristics.

Regards,

Art S.

 

Art:

What handling differences do you see in your car?

I agree, the handbuilt aspect becomes very apparent when you've had an old Ferrari for awhile. My car has two left-side distributors, according to current mechanic, which made it difficult to set the ignition timing properly. I'm thinking of converting to electronic ignition this year, and possibly an electronic tachometer mechanism as well, as long as I can make these changes without damaging any of the original stuff when it is removed.

 

I'll add to Art and Scott's remarks about the 330 2+2. My car has P/S and is easy to drive around town but never feels too light at speed- perfect.

My brakes were rebuilt by Whitepost this fall so they should feel like new (?). Just driving around, they feel like any modern brakes. I've had to make 2 panic stops- once when a xmas tree flew off a car in front of me!!- and the car did perfectly well with no lock up or pulling.

The car does have some roll to it - not bad- but shocks are original.

Steering great with new tie rods. For feel, better than my new M3!

Suspension firm but not harsh.

Shifting up or down ok but you have to be deliberate. My gears will grind if I shift fast-- ED NILES-- When new could one shift these cars fast?

Engine wonderful sounds. My engine as does Scott's get scary fast at speed, but I dont nail it when going slow. My engine has not been rebuilt, so I dont know how to compare to a new one. My 1991 Nissan Sentra SE-R does 0-60 in 7.4 seconds and my 330 feels slightly faster.

Dan

 

Ralph,

The Series I PF Coupe cannot handle as well as the GTE, as it sits on 16 inch wheels and drum brakes. The Series II car should be very similar to the GTE. Apart from the old fashioned lever shocks the ingredients of the Series II car are pretty much the same as the GTE.

Another thing, the seats are bench-type so the impression of bad handling is exacerbated around corners.

john

 

For me the nice part about these cars is the fun driving them comes at a lower speed than for the new ones. In a 355 or 360, I always seem to be going at least 20-30 mph over the speed limit, and they still seem a little boring. My 330 is fast enough to zip over country roads and stop when needed, but it all happens at a more socially-responsible speed. Don't forget the big nardi wheel and the sounds they make (also a big part of the experience). These are all great driving cars.

 

Tony is right - IT'S ABOUT THE SOUNDS

to get your juices going, go to this link, click on the 2/22/05 entry and start clicking on the pictures . . .
enjoy and thanks to Tom Yang for making them.

http://www.tomyang.net/cars/ferrari.html

 

Tony has an important point. You can have a blast in a vintage V12 without exceeding 60 mph. The sounds are great in the 2.5K to 5K RPM range.

Wayne, IMO you've got an exception with your gearbox.

One of the recurring things I've read over my relatively very short experience is that trans synchronizers in this era Ferrari tend to go weak quickly, especially second gear. Mine shifts very smoothly when it has been warmed up for a half-hour, and I can make passably quick shifts now that I have a good feel for timing, but I still wouldn't dare treat it like an American musclecar. That's the crucial element in stoplight competition--you can lose two seconds shift competing with a new Mustang, ricer, or BMW with either a manual or automatic. By third gear, your're in the dust.

 

To all, especially Dan and Scott,

My mechanicals are rebuilt by well known Ferrari specialists so I may have a slightly different perspective. My car is pleasant to drive at any speed but when it is on cam (above 4500 RPM) things get very impressive.

- Power: The engine is great - very responsive. The car accelerates acceptably well at lower speeds but its not set up for stoplight drags. That said it goes like nothing else I have driven from 80 to 120 mph.

- The brakes are amazing by older car standard and OK to good by modern standards (rebuilt in '04 - scarily bad prior to rebuild).

- Handling (no power steering on mine): Arm workout below 3mph (if you have sweaty hands you are in trouble); around town OK; 10 mph and up no problems. My suspension has been rebuilt but my steering needs to be slightly adjusted to make it feel like it’s on rails.

- Shifting: I'm between Wayne and the other 330 guys. I can get into 2nd even when the car is cold and the outside temp is below freezing (I just have to do it slowly). Even though I can get into any gear when cold, the car really doesn't like to do speed shifts.

- Smell: Old english leather and slight engine bay essences in the cabin. I love it my wife doesn't.

- Sound: Amazing

- Driving perception - exciting at speeds that will not get you arrested. That said, driving an old VW camper can be exciting below the speed limit!

Art S.

PS. Scott, if you think it sounds good at 5, you should hear it above that!

 

Art et al,

Interesting stuff about our gearboxes and differences. Mine sounds about like Art's. Even at 20 degrees I can get in all the gears easily, just have to be deliberate. Not too much diff between 20 and 95 degrees! If anything it likes cold weather better.

Although I have never driven another 330, the P/S is really good. Easy to park yet I feel compltely in control at high speed.

Dan