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How does Ferrari do it?

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by Cavallini, May 4, 2004.

  1. Cavallini

    Cavallini Formula 3

    Nov 2, 2003
    1,818
    I was just at a bookstore and read in this week's Autoweek about Scuderia's recent 1-2 finish in Bahrain, all but assuring Schumacher of his 7th title.

    My question is, how has Ferrari, without overwhelming technical advantages, a la Gordon Murray, utterly dominated F1 for the last four or five years?

    I've only recently begun following F1 and when lucky watching it.

    The far more experienced Tifosi insight is most welcome.

    Forza,

    Cavallini
     
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  3. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Oct 3, 2002
    45,895
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    Andreas
    Best team approach: One of the best designers, team managers, race strategist and drivers working very very hard together with an almost unlimited budget.

    Ok, you could say basically the same about Mc Laren and look where they are now. So it must be something in the water of Maranello...
    :)

    Seriously, sometimes it is hard to define what actually causes the success. If it were simple, Ferrari wouldn't have had the 20 years of not winning the WC. If it were simple, Sauber, which in essence has the rear half of a Ferrari this year, would do better than they do.

    A F1 team is like a precise watch: If all parts work together in the best possible way, things turn right.
     
  4. Mr Payne

    Mr Payne F1 Rookie

    Jan 8, 2004
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    MS & his incredible driving skill and incredible luck have something to do with it. Not sure one could say Ferrari would have had drivers/constructors last year without his skill/luck.
     
  5. 62 250 GTO

    62 250 GTO F1 Veteran

    Jan 9, 2004
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    Neil
    There's that luck again.
    "He's ok, but real lucky"
    Yeah that's it.
    If you don't like the guy or don't like the team, it's OK.
    There's no need to post if you don't want to.
    Where does "luck" come into play?
     
  6. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    7,021
    Ferrari does have an absolute advantage--they build their own engines! And transmissions! And everything else! Always have, always will. McLaren--nope, Williams--nope, Renault--yes, anyone else-nope. Ferrari has metal casting technology that nobody else has. Even back in the middle-ages (mid-1960s to early-1980s) while the DFV was winning races in essentially unmodified form, Ferrari brought out no less than 7 different engine blocks in flat and V forms. During this period of time, engine technology enabled a 7%-8% growth in power per year going from just over 300 HP in 1966 to just under 600 HP the year the Renault brought in the turbos and blew everyone away.
     
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  8. CTEV2

    CTEV2 Karting

    Feb 4, 2004
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    New Orleans
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    Charlie Thomas
    Hold everything equal except the drivers: pit crew, design engineers, teh JT and RossB factors...

    ...and compare Rubens and Michael. Doesn't Rubens seem to have many more tech problems with his car in the past few seasons? In 2002, MS won 11 of 17 races, and placed 2nd or 3rd in the other 6.

    How'd Rubens do? Well, he didn't finish the first four of five races, and only one of those DNFs was due to a collision. The main problems involved gearbox, ignition, hydraulics, and engine. I seriously doubt that Rubens is abusing the car more than MS, so call it what you will....MS is lucky on top of skilled.
     
  9. Mr Payne

    Mr Payne F1 Rookie

    Jan 8, 2004
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    Werd. :)
     
  10. 62 250 GTO

    62 250 GTO F1 Veteran

    Jan 9, 2004
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    Neil
    MS broke his leg, lost the title and many points. Wurz went wheel banging with him in Monaco and took him out. He has had several flat tires in his career. How is that lucky? Or is this a case by case basis? I woke up on time without my alarm {I'm lucky}. I spilled soup on my shirt {I'm unlucky} I had very little work at the office today {I'm lucky} I broke my shoe lace {unlucky again}. I work hard and I make money, is it luck? I fall off a bridge, is that bad luck? Or fate? Or destiny? Or the way God wanted it to be?
    People bash MS for getting in the lead and taking it easy. "That's not racing!", they scream. Then when his car doesn't break down, "he's lucky". Give me a break. Is the sky falling too?
     
  11. 62 250 GTO

    62 250 GTO F1 Veteran

    Jan 9, 2004
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    If this was 1702, you guys would be gathering wood for the town square' burning of witches. Get with the times. Do you guys feel robbed when you play the lottery and don't win? And I'm quite sure you both "play" the lottery.
    :)
     
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  13. CTEV2

    CTEV2 Karting

    Feb 4, 2004
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    Charlie Thomas
    Calm yo'self! If you haven't noticed, we've been saying SKILL and luck. I'm a huge Schumi fan, and compared with other drivers, he's had wonderful luck, in ADDITION to skill.

    There is more to the black and white that you are seeing. "When his car doesn't break down, he's lucky" ----> where are you quoting this from? I NEVER said it...

    One more time...I know it's hard to grasp, but my POINT is that compared with other drivers in the field today, ESPECIALLY Rubens since so many factors are the same, Michael Schumacher has had the up side of the coin, in ADDITION to skill. That's not so hard to believe is it?

    ...of course, I did see MS personally checking his hydraulic and ignition systems quite a few times. He had the diagnostic equipment hooked up all by himself and everything! All the while, Rubens was just carrying his lucky rabbit's foot. SO maybe Michael isn't lucky, but in fact responsible for EVERY DETAIL that would cause his teammate to DNF. Especially when the same caliber mechanics are assembling the cars...
     
  14. Mr Payne

    Mr Payne F1 Rookie

    Jan 8, 2004
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    I personally don't believe in anything called "luck" but perhaps the idea could be defined as "a result which the doer has no or little influence on but can affect the doer either positively or negatively". Other than the broken leg season....what season do you think he was so negatively affected by luck where he lost a spot in constructors? One simply has to look at his race retirement rate to see if he is lucky. He is at 22%. With his broken leg retirements he is still at 24.5%. That is awesome. I don't think anyone can attribute that solely to skill.
     
  15. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
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    Pete
    Hard work!

    Motor racing is all about testing and finding performance ... and knowing what to look for.

    Currently McLaren are lost and do not know where to look for performance ... thus they are trying to many things and just lightening their car ... causing failures.

    Even if you are lost (like McLaren) thousands of test days and correct analysis of the results will point you in the right direction.

    Ferrari have 2 full test teams. No other team has that. They also have Bridgestone in bed with them. No other team has that.

    Then MS and RB also join in to test, and MS has been proven to be a great tester.

    Ferrari also have their OWN test track ... plus they have heaps of funds to continue a very effective test strategy.

    TESTING is everything in motorsport.

    Pete
     
  16. owsi

    owsi Karting

    Dec 7, 2003
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    Matt
    Luck is when something outside of your control goes for or against you. We are all lucky, sometimes for good sometimes for bad. As for Schumi, NOBODY is THAT lucky for THAT long. Just ask the casinos.
     
  17. Hubert

    Hubert F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2002
    2,642
    The Left Coast
    Driver fitness and component reliability. The former is acheived with commitment , talent and tremendous dedication (through good, and through bad), the latter is achieved with testing, testing, testing, testing and more testing (Ferrari has more test milage than any other team on the grid--they've tested each component to failure). Moreover, having a staff of engineers that know their **** helps; Schumi's crew from Benetton followed him to Ferrari because they were aware of his level of commitment and dedication. They knew they were following a champion. It's that simple. You simply have to work very, very hard to be the best. (Luck and talent help, too.)
     
  18. Skelter

    Skelter Rookie

    Nov 1, 2003
    48
    Hard Work, discipline and questionable team strategies.
     
  19. Skelter

    Skelter Rookie

    Nov 1, 2003
    48
    and lots of $$$
     
  20. vincent355

    vincent355 F1 Veteran
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    Apr 8, 2003
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    Funny...same goes for outstanding pro golfers and other greats. They leave as litte to chance as possible. They check on everything...condition of equipment, wheter the trainer has had a bad day, has the owner made good on a deal...etc ad nauseum... These guys purely want to be the best and leave nothing to chance.
     
  21. Hubert

    Hubert F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2002
    2,642
    The Left Coast
    Say again? Per the FIA rule book , team orders are legit; that said, define "questionable" to me please.
     
  22. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    7,021
    This harkens back to the days of Jimmy Clark. Jimmy would often finish a F1 race with 1/2 the brake pads left, and the engine singing sweetly, and most of the tires looking good. His teammate would finish (most of the time) with a spent engine, totally worn out brakes, and totally worn out tires. Yet jimmy was some 20 seconds ahead at the finish.

    Some drivers just have that 'something' that lets them make time up without stressing the car. MS does, Jim Clark did, Fangio did, Rubens does not but seems to be heading in that direction, Mario did not in his early years and then learned and almost got it by the time of his retirement.
     
  23. Nuvolari

    Nuvolari F1 Veteran
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    Sep 3, 2002
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    Rob C.
    "It is useless to justify lack of success by hiding behind misfortune, which is no other than the sum total of all the factors in all the situations which we did not know how or were unable to foresee.”

    Enzo Ferrari
     

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