How far behind is McLaren ? | Page 10 | FerrariChat

How far behind is McLaren ?

Discussion in 'F1' started by william, Mar 21, 2015.

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  1. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 3, 2006
    28,054

    Red Bull is just a sponsor who bought an existing team and facilities to get a foothold in F1 and control their investment from all angles.

    The main business of Mateschitzt is to sell energy drinks and not to be leading an engineering company. He bought the Jaguar team to have the final word in everything that goes on; an outsider bringing sponsorship never get that.

    A "normal" sponsor can jump from team to team, depending on their fortune, and try to always back a winner (like Marlboro, Santander, Shell, Martini, etc.. have done over the years), whilst Mateschitz is stuck with Red Bull, and he doesn't like the lean years that almost every outfit goes through from time to time.

    When it stop making sense for Mateschizt to spend so much in promoting his energy drink company, or when he feels that the return doesn't justify the expense, he will be out of F1 like a shot, and the team for sale.

    Just look how quickly Tony Fernandez dropped Caterham!!
     
  2. David Lind

    David Lind Formula 3

    Nov 19, 2008
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    David Lind
    Red Bull did buy an existing team; that's true. But in all fairness to them, they have built it to heights it never experienced before. Come to think of it, there are very few teams in F1 history that equal the Red Bull Juggernaut of the Vettel years.
    I hope they stay in F1, but who knows?
     
  3. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 3, 2006
    28,054
    I am certainly not denying their past success.

    But how can Red Bull "the sponsor" can keep justifying spending money on Red Bull "the team" if the results are not coming.

    In the long run, it would be better for Red Bull "the sponsor" to start backing a successful team, and get rid of Red Bull "the team". Otherwise, the whole thing becomes a costly indulgence and doesn't make sense.
     
  4. freshmeat

    freshmeat F1 Veteran

    Aug 30, 2011
    7,290
    McLaren is up'ing the power even more this week, ahead of the b-spec engine for Spain. So, w a b-spec engine coming, I don't think we're going to see that "point of marginal returns" just quite yet, which bodes well for the return of some level of competitiveness by McLaren-Honda.

    ---------------------

    McLaren will up the power of its Honda engine again this weekend in Bahrain before introducing a new-spec power unit at the Spanish Grand Prix.

    McLaren has not qualified higher than the penultimate row of the grid this year, but has closed on the gap to the front of the grid at each round since the season-opener in Australia. It has been running its Honda power unit detuned to try to ensure reliability, but it is now confident it can up the power again in Bahrain this weekend.

    "We know which step we can still get out of this engine, so already in Bahrain we can power up the power unit a little bit and in Barcelona we have another spec coming, so we will keep improving every race," racing director Eric Boullier said. "There was a major step in terms of the reliability package [in China], so there's no issue. This is a good achievement, and now we know we can power up the engine and with the same base we know we have some potential we can unlock with this engine, so it's okay."

    However, Boullier would not predict the impact the new updates would have on McLaren's competitiveness, only confirming that the team is still targeting competitive results by the end of the year.

    "I'm not saying any dates because every race we bring improvements. The potential of the engine we know is quite high, they have been quite ambitious because we keep repeating it but if you want to beat Mercedes you have to be better than them.

    "So we know there is some potential in the engine, there will be a push for the European campaign and even on the car itself we have another strong aerodynamic package coming in Barcelona. The target is we want to be competitive by the end of the season. That means we can prove out the potential from both the engine and the organisation."


    ---------------------
    Source: Honda to up power in Bahrain ahead of new spec engine in Spain
     
  5. scudF1

    scudF1 F1 Rookie
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    +1 For instance, It would be nice to sponsor Ferrari....lol
     
  6. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 3, 2006
    28,054
    And why not?

    Just like a driver tries to get in the best team, a sponsor surely should look to back a winner.
     
  7. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    I don't see Deiter.'s ego taking the demotion.
     
  8. Remy Zero

    Remy Zero Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2005
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    Well, finally Mclaren will be doing the sensible thing and turning up the engine power a notch this weekend.
     
  9. sp1der

    sp1der F1 Rookie

    Jan 10, 2009
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    Then they will need to start worrying about tyre deg when they get some hp
     
  10. DF1

    DF1 Three Time F1 World Champ

    Yes - how does the Mclaren work the tires. As always we see again this year, its just about the tires again.
     
  11. RallyeChris

    RallyeChris Formula Junior

    Nov 30, 2012
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    Red Bull "the team" isn't just some big expense on Red Bull "the business"'s balance sheet. The team itself is quite profitable, I'm sure. There's no way it would exist if it wasn't making money. The question becomes, how long will it continue to be profitable unless they start winning again.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/csylt/2014/04/03/revealed-red-bulls-1-2-billion-bet-on-formula-one/
     
  12. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 3, 2006
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    But the last paragraph still says that "technically", Red Bull is loosing money through F1...


    It may get lots of AVE, but is it substainable in the long run. That is the question.
     
  13. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    RedBull have really been wasting their money. Nobody will remember that RB won 4 in a row, they will remember that Newey won 4 in a row.

    I'm well aware that RB sponsor lots of Motorsport but I would struggle to list what now.

    On the other hand Mercedes current dominance will be remembered like it was in 1955 ...
    Pete
     
  14. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 3, 2006
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    That's because Mercedes has a huge heritage in motor racing, going back to the early days of the motor car.
     
  15. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    Yep and because they are a manufacturer not just a sponsor.
    Pete
     
  16. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 3, 2006
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    That too.

    Mercedes is maybe the oldest manufacturer still in motor racing; with Renault perhaps?
     
  17. NJB13

    NJB13 Formula 3

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    IMO Mercedes is most remembered for leaving F1
     
  18. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    99% of the RB market never heard of Newey.
     
  19. ago car nut

    ago car nut F1 Veteran
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    So true!
     
  20. RallyeChris

    RallyeChris Formula Junior

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    Wow. You only read what you want to read. Sad, really.
     
  21. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    What is the RB market? Can't imagine people that drink the stuff give too hoots about F1, so why do they compete in it?

    I always thought it was just an ego trip for the owner ... ?
    Pete
     
  22. Igor Ound

    Igor Ound F1 Veteran

    Sep 30, 2012
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    #247 Igor Ound, Apr 15, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2015
    People watching F1 need a wake up these days.

    I start to find pro-cycling more entertaining again
     
  23. RallyeChris

    RallyeChris Formula Junior

    Nov 30, 2012
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    Most F1 fans around the world are not like the typical American F1 fan. Much like American football, there are "casual" fans that watch. They may not know, or be interested in, the fine details of the sport/team. But, the TV is on and they are watching and rooting for their team/driver.

    Sponsors do not care if the person watching the race knows the name of the guy who designed the race car, they just want to know how many people are watching, and how long their logo is going to be displayed, on average, during a Grand Prix.

    Even with some market numbers on a decline, the overall exposure is huge. Some of the following data is dated, but it gives you an idea of the global scope of F1.


    Welcome to F1Scarlet Knowledge Base - One Dream One Passion One Glory

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    https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2014/02/04/thoughts-of-tv-numbers/
     
  24. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 3, 2006
    28,054

    Although the benefits of advertising are unquestionable, up to a point, the value of sponsorship is not the same.

    Sponsorship is often a disguised form of mecenat, in an area favoured by the decision makers.
    It's also used as a form of tax reduction, and in most countries hardly challenged by the inland revenue. It's just accepted as "expenses" on the balance sheet, when in fact it often channels funds towards vested interests.
     
  25. DeSoto

    DeSoto F1 Veteran

    Nov 26, 2003
    7,903
    Red Bull has been sponsoring all kinds of "extreme sports" and motor racing for decades (including F1 with Sauber) so I think that this is more than just a toy for the owner.
     

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