How good are your driving skills?

My skills are good enough to drive with most, if not all, of those driving these cars. In my earlier life I was a lot faster, but I've gotten older, and make sure that I don't get the car too loose when I'm driving it. However, 30 years ago, I'd have been a bunch faster, but that time is long gone. However, from what I've seen of those folks who own these cars, many of whom are 30 years younger than me, is that most of them have enough sense to not overextend themselves when driving. I've seen a few guys who are quick, but they are inconsistent, and I try to stay away from them, because they are accidents looking for a place to happen, not especially fast, but dangerous.

My point is this: these are street cars, not race cars. If you really want to go fast, get a race car, bike, or cart (I've got a shifter cart, and a track bike, neither of which I can do justice to at this stage of my life). Driving a Ferrari too fast on the public roads is asking for trouble. See the post in Northern California regarding the 1098 tri color for an example of what happens when an older guy (not me or Mike) thinks they are on a racetrack.

Art

 

LOL----Alot of training being able to drive thru traffic and intersections....Knock on wood---Never had a crash in 14 yrs of emergency vehicle driving----9 yrs as an Accident Reconstructionist and seeing some terrible tradegies will also make you a better defensive driver...

 

HAHA---Can't be that bad...

 

I read a stat that a survey of drivers in the hospital after accidents THEY CAUSED found that 85% of them believed they had "above average" driving skills.

 

Part of the problem of extracting performance out of these cars is that the levels are so high now. When drivers were pushing, say, a little MG or Austin Healey around, the limits were so much lower that you could get away with a lot. And, if bitten, the consequences weren't anywhere near where they are today. If you want to push a Ferrari (any Ferrari, really) to anything remotely approaching their limits, you really need to understand how to drive well.

I can discuss my bona fides, but I have no problems taking them to 80-90% on the street. Even so, the truth is that the track is the only place to explore what they can do as there are so many uncontrollable variables. So, if I'm hustling stuff around on the street, there's always some level of unknowable risk.

CW

 

This is a really good question. Im 49 and after reading and learning here for a while ,I am ready to start my search for my first F car. Consider myself an ok street driver. The important thing is being constantly aware of other drivers around you and potentially dangerous situations . The higher the speed the greater the danger. As I get older my actions are more prudent and calculated. How do you fight that urge to just push it. I compare it to having a machine gun and only firing one shot at a time.

 

Without adequate training, and consistent practice, I don't think many could be considered "great", particularly the track. On the road, since most of us drive daily, hopefully you improve, but not always the case.

I went to an SCCA school, thinking I was "great" (as previous poster noted - 80% think they are ) - boy was I humbled. I definitely have the physical tools, the hand/eye coordination (all those video games I played as a kid are paying off in my 40s!), whatever to do it. Hell, I drag raced for a while, and they even noted I was able to put the power down NICELY off a turn.

Where I was humbled - and practically yelled at by the instructors - was my braking. Since many of us are used to bleeding off speed slowly and controlled on the street, it's the opposite on the track. You want to be in control, but you want to minimize the time spent on the brake pedal. Hence, it needs to be a short, quick burst of braking to bleed off max speed, then immediately back on throttle.

If you've never done it - try it. I improved over the course of the week (and was able to get my SCCA license), but I admitted I needed MUCH more practice to get better. I absolutely sucked at that piece of it, yet that's probably one of the most important things to learn.

FWIW

 

As someone once said, "Instructing men how to drive is liking teaching them about sex: they already know everything there is to know."

Women, on the other hand, are much easier to instruct (on the track, that is) because they listen and remember better. First and foremost, women understand the theory of going slow first, gradually increasing speed as they learn the correct line around the track. Most guys want to go fast out of the box. That usually changes when they drive too fast into a turn and have their first "Oh Crap" moment.

Driving smoothly and consistently is the key. Once you understand and master those two driving traits, you will be pleasantly surprised how much additional speed you pick up in the process.

 

And they probably felt that it was also acceptable to be talking, texting and eating while driving. Along with changing 4 lanes in an instant trying to make an exit and have no concept of how to merge.

I have friends that can't drive anywhere without talking on the phone or texting. It drives me absolutely insane. Besides it being inconsiderate when other people are with you (in my opinion, and it being non-business related). I also mean long conversations. I've heard people say that they know where the keys are on their phone so they really don't even look at it when they text. Which I think is bs.

 

Spending your first few motoring years on a motorcycle will do that, too. I've thought (and to some parents' horror, expressed) that because of the instincts and situational/spacial awareness learned by surviving on two wheels, it should be required before advancing to 4,000 pounds on four wheels.

The limits on my DD Audi wagon (yep, a WAGON) exceed those of my first Porsche, which makes it entertaining for what it is as a DD. I have more fun with my old, skinny tire stuff. Like most people here, my limits and comfort levels are different from most people's, due to pushing myself so early in life, but to the extent that I'm considered "crazy" until that passenger pays attention. Back in my fund-limited racing days, I was known for making a particular car go faster than it was supposed to, but as Art noted, that was long time ago, different reflexes (and lack of fear), and with run-off.

It's just more fun now to stay well below what I can do, hitting that apex perfectly, or enjoy a lttle sliding, depending on the car. I still have the more serious fun out on my familiar country roads, where I ran up 80K mi. in two years in that first Porsche, retaking those apexes again and again, when I was 17-19 (I was that Idiot Kid who picked the used P-car instead of the shiney new Trans-Am for H.S. graduation).
How good I could have been? Never as good as I'd like to be.

 

TOTAL AGREE,this I was refering before,and I`m not so older(I think jejeje),I`m 31 years old.

RESPECT ALL THE RULES on public roads is the best way to be THE BEST driver there,no way.

 

I'm not sure I understand this post, exactly. It's a language thing. Sorry. What it made me want to say, though, was that road rules and regulations are designed for the lowest common denominator. Some government bureaucrat/engineer-type has a formula that he/she blindly and thoughtlessly applies based on a number of factors. Whatever result the formula spits out, that's the answer. So, whatever it is has to take into account the soccer mom who's distracted, the geriatric and the beater/PoS on the roads, too. They are clearly not accommodating to high performance or modern machinery. Vehicles today are so much more competent and safe, that even 65mph is laughably boring.

The very first thing they teach you in many driver's training programs is that the DRIVER is the best person to determine what's right in any given situation. Road rules should be "recommendations". Not unthinkingly-followed law. I'm not saying go out and blast around at 150mph in traffic. But, what I am saying is that on an open straight road in NV, in a Ferrari, low speed limits are just frustrations.

At least in one State (Montana, IIRC), the Courts have finally accepted that and dismissed reckless speeding charges against someone going over 150mph on a motorcycle. While I never read the rationale, it gibes with the fact that speed, in itself, isn't a problem. It's poor operation that makes it reckless. So, a good operator going fast doesn't, prima facie, establish recklessness.

CW

 

I'd say you should take some HPDE if you intend to drive any of the high performance cars of today anywhere near where they are capable of being driven. Personally, I am not into track driving, or really extreme driving of any type. I am content scotting around in my low HP car making some noise and feeling like I am going fast.
zoom-zoom,,,,

BT

 

If you want to see just how "not bad " you are try following a professional driver around.

I remember a friend of mine telling me about a time when a moto gp rider showed him the line around a race track on a motor bike, after a couple of laps he felt like he was a hero as he was keeping up. Then on a sweeping turn with his knee dragging the ground and my friend giving it all he had to follow, the professional took one hand off the bars turned around to look backwards gave my friend the thumbs up and left him in the dust.

Moral of the (true) story, however good you think you are you are just at level 10 out of 100 when you come across someone who is truly good.


Russell

 

Good story. But, remember that you're using the best of the best as the comparison. It's all relative. If you can lap fast (and feel comfortable at the same time), you're probably in the top 10%, I'm guessing. Most people don't know how to operate a turn signal!

CW

 

A few weeks ago, I got to scoot around in a borrowed 9-year-old turbodiesel Jetta, manual 5-speed thankfully, on all-season 60(?)-series tires - and had a blast those couple of days.

Ah, yes - the BLINDING BLINKERS OF DEATH, used so sparingly by most people.....for our protection and consideration, I'm sure.

 

Yes I agree. I was an instructor for the local N.A.S.A. region for a couple years. I also taught and drove clients around for some corporate days.

Watching people show up and Skip Barber race weekends was the same old story there too. They all knew everything. Of course after the first timed session 15 out of 16 drivers in any given run group soon realised that they may not know everything.

As for me ..my driving skills on the track are really pretty good. As for the road...well I just can't park worth a damn. Doesn't matter what the parking space is..I'll manage to go in crooked. And parallel parking..HA!

 

That's another thing a lot of people need to work on. No offense to you. I guess more importantly is having the conscience to fix the vehicle so that it is straight in the space instead of pulled in like **** and "f*** it".

I'll never forget having to parallel park during my driving test in high school. There was an even going on at the school that evening. We started out with 2 orange cones similulating cars. By the time it was my turn I didn't have just cones, I had real cars to park between. I was a bit nervous, but pulled it off without a hitch. Talk about making sure I knew the difference between the brake and accelerator.

 

I understand all you want to mean there,and I agree in some therms,but you forget a lot of things there for the reasons of the legal limits at public roads,is not only about to put a mom and a grandpa there,I`m only to say 1 reason more,and you can think about aallllll the rest:
- People drinks.
If you find 65 mph bouring,you can always rent a circuit and go fast there,so fast than you will crash your car,but without kill innocent people coming in opossite direction,here at most places in Europe the normal roads has got only a 4 inches line painted there that separates you from them,never forget that.



I repeat,if you have got the money to own a Ferrari,you should have got the money to rent a circuit sometimes during a year,no frustration there,and no danger like in a public road.



150 mph is a deadly speed in case of accident,I hope you never will have got a problem in your car/motorbike at this speed,or the Montana State Courts will be the last thing you are going to mind/think about if you makes several damages to yourself,o to someone else at the road.


First to have got a speedy car/bike,,,you have to be well minded for it.If you want to be fast,the public road is not the place,no way,doesn,t mind what the montana state courts say,or any another courts,,,,,,this is about MORAL,,not about laws maked under stupid burocratic people.This is my modest opinion.

 

I agree that we can't eliminate all the risk. Variables will always exist. Have you ever driven a Ferrari at legal speeds? BORING. The cars are designed to perform at significantly higher levels. Heck, most soccer moms in minivans exceed the speed limit by some margin on a regular basis. Whether drivers are capable of driving safely at those speeds is a better question. I suggest that some are, yet they are being held back by rules that are created to "save us from ourselves". Would you argue that Alonso should be held to the same slow speed limits the public is? Obviously, the law is the law, and he would be, but should he? Again, I'm not saying drive it like you stole it every time you get in it. But, there are plenty of times when exceeding the speed limit would be considered "safe" by virtually the entire population. So, the conditions matter. Weather, road, traffic, driver, vehicle, etc. It all adds up, and driving 150mph is an extreme example. But, would you argue that driving 70 in a 55 is unsafe? On ice or rain at night in a Smart car in the twisties I think it certainly is asking for trouble. How about if you're driving an Enzo on a straight stretch of motorway on a sunny, blue-sky day with no other traffic on the road? Different answer, I think. Or, 80mph? 90? 100? However, I don't necessarily believe speed limits are designed to reflect drunk or impaired drivers. The rules assume you're in full capacity of yourself, and they have to make some basic assumptions. It's the smart (and/or skilled) driver that understands and processes that risk. But, just because a bank vault can fall out of the sky doesn't mean you stay in your house, does it?

Yes, I do go to the track. And, more than just tootling around in a street car. But, that's what makes driving on the street so boring. Yes, you do realize how much riskier it is on the street. BUT, by becoming a more competent driver on the track, and improving one's skills there, doesn't that translate into a more skilled driver on the street? So, if you're capable of assessing risks and have the skills to understand the dynamics of car control and what it can (and can't) do, then why shouldn't that driver be given more "rope with which to hang themselves"? If they make a mistake, it's their fault (or at least they've contributed partially). But, if they don't, they've proven their skills and risk assessment abilities. But, dragging everyone down to the lowest common denominator isn't necessarily the best solution. It's certainly the most practical, though. And, how do you square the Autobahn with your argument?

Again, I'm not sure I follow your "moral" argument. Are you suggesting that it's amoral to speed?

CW

 

jejejej,,,,It`s a nice answer,you see,we could debate "this rules" for a looong time sure,because it depends of every person there.
Of course I can find drive a fast car(Ferrari or any other) at legal speeds is bouring,but is the safest way,and also economical way,to drive this kind(and all) cars every day or every time that you are driving in a car.
Nobody is going to respect this legal limits every time they use a car,is true,and logical,because is not only about the "bouring feeling,sometimes you need to break them to male safe some mistakes there from other drivers or from yourself.You can find a lot situations like that,people breaking rules because at this moment is neccessary to avoid a crash,or big mistake,,,every day you can see it,and is logical break a rule to avoid a problem,than follow the rule to have got a crash,obiusly.
Honestly I think Alonso,you,me,,and all the people there,,,never follow the legal limits all the time,all the days of the year,of course not,and I agree with you on that,yea,all people pass the legal limits several times every day,sometimes is for fun and sometimes is totally necessary that,but if you think a situation:you are running at 100 mph and the guy in front comes at 100mph too,in a 65mph limit road,if you crash against him,it will be around 200mph crash,,,so for that reason goberments put the limits,if they let the people mark our own limits(depending in every of us,of our sense of drivin skill),it will be the double dead people there,like minimun.
Drivin in a 55mph road at 70mph,of course is a safe feeling,it`s 70,,,not 170,,,ok,,yeah,this is the feeling inside your car,but is like before,If the guy in front comes at 70,,or,100,,or more(you never know),,and is a front crash there,at 55 + 55:110mph,may be could survive,,,,but 70 +70: 140mph,much more risk to die,and if the speed is upper than 70,,most probablies of dead there.
So,yea I agree with you,sometimes the legal limits are bouring,and also we need to brake to avoid bigger problems,is not only fun sometimes,,,,and I agree that the feeling inside a car 10 - 20 mph upper than the legal limit is TOTALLY safe in most of the cases also,yea,but this is only a feeling that the modern cars give to you ehwn you are inside it,is not a real thing.You can see the "crash tests" all the car brands make...Why do you think they never show a crash test under fast conditions???,,,because the results you could see there,,better not comment.See the speed in a normal "crash test" and see the consecuencies at this speed,an then imagine the double,or triple speed,,,,,
The cars improved a lot from 30 years to now,also the tyres compounds for street cars,,,,but the roads countinue being roads,that`s the problem.

Autobahn,I soupuse you mean highway,,,,fo me is the same,I agree is one of the most bouring things if you run always under legal limits,but this is my feeling and my opinion,not is the RIGHT thing.Of course I find it bouring,but is the safest way to run every day,because highway means a lot of more speed than a normal road to make it less bouring,so at final,the negativve results could be even bigger.Highway not means a close room,in high speeds your car can loose the control,crash against a protecction and jump like a plane passing to the opositte highway direcction,,,try that,,,is really funny(ironic mode).
May be if you have got to move very slowly with your Ferrari in a highway for 1 or 2 hours becouse one guy 10 milles more has got and accident and is a cutted pass there,,,and you blow up your clutch cause of the 5 mph "runing car caravan" during 1 hour,sure your are going to say STUPID MAN to this guy who cause the accident,you are not going to think:" poor,may be he was taking some little fun in this bouring highway,,,,and heavy crash,poor man".
So every person is different,how wee feel,or think under or about a situation in a road/highway is different,so to take more or less respect to ALL we must follow the limits,is bouring,yeah,and sometimes less safe than to break them,yeea,,,,but is the most inteligent way to come back sane and safe every day with your family and friends,we must to think about that.

jejejej drive a Ferrari outside a race track,ALWAYS will be bouring if you compare it,,,jejejejjeje Of courseeee my friend jejjeje
But another Ferrari customers look for the feeling when people claims about Ferrari when they are at the streets of a little summer town,running at 1 mph,or may be stopped and all the people is around the car,some Ferrari owners look for that,not speed.

There is a lot of kind of minds,like colours,,,,,

 

The safest speed is 0. The problem is that we have to have some acceptable compromise. In the US, it's 65mph (or, in some States, up to 75mph). So, why not even higher? They've already determined that 75mph is "safe" by State Government standards. This is what's referred to as "the slippery slope". What's "safe" and "unsafe" are judgment calls. And, can we say with a straight face that some traffic engineer sitting in a cubicle with no high-performance driving skills knows what's safer than Michael Schumacher? Authorities conduct studies, and they have learned that most people exceed the limit regularly. Probably because they feel they are safe at the higher speeds. Perhaps erroneously.

And, there is a school of thought that believes if you're bored at the wheel, you're more likely to engage in distracting behaviour such as fiddling with the radio, drinking a beverage, putting on makeup, reading the paper, talking on a cell or, now, texting. I can tell you what I know...that at 150mph you're paying attention and not multi-tasking. I bet that if people picked up their speeds, accidents would increase for a while (as drivers would over-estimate their skills and under-estimate the risks, and the accidents would be much worse, given the speeds), but, in time, people would adjust their driving habits and the number of accidents would eventually fall. But, that's just speculation.

Finally, while I don't want to offend those who buy and drive Ferraris slowly "to be seen", that's not me. I'm driving it because it performs. It just happens to look good, too. If people want to look at it while it's parked, that's fine. But, I don't drive or park it to make a statement.

CW

 

Do you have an "80% rule" in Spain?

There's been a movement, in the US, to impose a rule where the speed limits *must* be raised if 80% of the drivers drive faster.

In the US, we have federal roads, state roads, county roads, and town roads -- so we have all sorts of different governments setting our speed limits.
And most of the local governments would rather lower the speed limits than fix a flaw on the road -- poor visibility, bad pavement, sagging roadbed, etc.


By now, most Americans are used to the idea that speed limits aren't set for safety, but to support letting people drive without paying attention.

*NO* speed is safe, when you're gabbing on the cell phone, texting, or doing things other than driving the vehicle.
You should have seen the fight in VA just to pass a piddling $30 fine for texting while driving.

Once you accept that drivers aren't driving, the speed limits are doomed to a downward spiral.

I see this every day in the D.C. metro area: drivers who can't stay between the lines, who miss the stop line by a whole car length at lights, who just roll through stop signs, who pay no attention to the roads, who aren't willing to let another car into traffic .... but they think they're good drivers, because they're really really really slow.
If they have four miles of empty left lane in front of them, they'll still stop if the car in the right lane does.
There's a difference between "egalitarianism" and "hiding in the middle of the herd".

The last time I was stopped for speeding, the speed limit was dropped from 45 to 35 ... for two blocks. (With an undersized sign.)
Local jurisdictions aren't concerned for "safety" -- they're worried about "revenue generation".

These may be reasons why many US drivers have less respect for speed limits than you apparently have.


Oh, and BTW: the most economical cruising speed on my Alfa Spider was 70 mph (with the factory gearing).
(Just before the US imposed a "national maximum" speed limit of 55 ... "to save gas".)
(Ironically, that '70s Alfa at 70 mph got mileage almost as good as a Prius claims today. And probably just as good as a Prius really gets on the highway.)

 

Here is not a 80% rule,here if the road conditions are demanding more speed than the limit for the drivers at that moment,the drivers can go faster legaly at that moment under this conditions,,I mean for example here at highways is a 120km/h limit (about 65 - 70 mph) but when the traffic is in all the lanes and all traffic is going faster than limits,is legal,when you are alone and all the lane is for you,is not legal.So sometimes is a stupid thing,faster when is plenty of cars,and not when you really could be faster and more safely. Burocracy.
Here the rule is: If you pass in speed the 50% of the legal speed limit,you go to jail.Doesn`t matter if you only drink water,or never talk by cell phone there.
So if the limit is 50 mph,and you are running at 76 mph,here,you could go to jail very easy,it is a penal(penal I refer with high risk of jail,not only money) crime(offence) there,and also you loose some points of your driving license,we have got points to loose,etc etc etc etc,,,,,,,,so this kind of reasons,and others about safety,makes me respect the limits,as you expected on me.

Other BIG point is education,every country/continent has got its own road specs and drivers specs,so that means different education behind the wheel,I mean in a general view(please not offend with this):
At USA drivers you find widest straight roads,and 3-4-5-6--10--20 lanes highways,,so I can understand is very bouring go under limits and easy pass the limits,is easy to find a Drag race champion also,,,,here is much more different my friens,here the roads are thiiiiiinnnest and plenty of caotic tuuuuurnssss,,,and 2 lane highways,I mean this is like a daily rally,too many WRC champs from Europe,0 from USA,all to say,,,so if we refers to skill my friends,you NEVER are going to know what skills really means if you never come to Europe to drive under this conditions.There is a Top Gear episode,they show something about that I mean there,it translates in a race aganist a little and drivable europen car aganist a big american muscle car in a circuit with something more than a straight line.

So,in my modest and honest opinion there is a lot off differences in the way how one and other people see a public road,and how we have to drive there,all is valid,of course I agree with you in a lot of things,but for me the public road will be continue being dangerous at lows,middles and high speeds,because we can not control more than ourown there,and is more people there,with theirown thinkings and acts,that you can not control.

I told you,is going to be a loooooong debate if we talk about this jejjjejej

 

No and if that was the case then we wouldn't have Ferrari road cars. There is a new school of Ferrari owners and most came onboard with the F1 cars, much easier to drive fast but don't get over confident.