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How high did bidding go for the Breadvan (Christies-Monterey)

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by CDM, Aug 26, 2005.

  1. CDM

    CDM Formula Junior

    Oct 10, 2004
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    I heard the Breadvan did not sell at Christies Monterey auction. Does anyone know what the high bid was? I would like to pass this information on to the gentleman who originally commissioned the Breadvan. Incidentally, when he finished racing the Breadvan, he sold it for $2500. It was supposed to bring $3.5 to $5.0 mill at Christies.
     
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  3. SefacHotRodder

    SefacHotRodder F1 World Champ

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    3 mil



    Also, this should be moved to vintage
     
  4. judge4re

    judge4re F1 World Champ

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    Was that a real bid or the chandelier?
     
  5. El Wayne

    El Wayne Global Moderator
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    #4 El Wayne, Aug 26, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  6. SefacHotRodder

    SefacHotRodder F1 World Champ

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  8. judge4re

    judge4re F1 World Champ

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    Hey, I know the one on the right, that one never buys anything!
     
  9. billnoon

    billnoon Formula 3
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    Dermit (the auctioneer) bid the car which is Christie's stated and public policy and actually quite common. Some call it "chandelier bidding" etc... I was there in the center four rows back and had four of our staff there in various other sections...

    Sorry but there was never a real bid.

    I was next to the owner's long time Louisiana friend and he and those in his group were quite shocked that the 1512 sold and that the owner's other car did not generate the interest Christie's had promissed.

    Both the sale of the 1512 as well as the Talbot were done on a single and first "real" bid.

    There were a few otherse but otherwise auction was not very exciting. I think of the lots sold the gross was something just shy of $10M. It is posted on their web site and can be found on this site in another link.

    Regards,

    Bill Noon
     
  10. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    There was NO bidding at all on the Breadvan.
    What is the Breadvan?? An SWB with a wrong engine and a rebody. Is it worth US$ 3.5 M or more?? Most probably not. The original SWB Berlinetta Scaglietti body of the Breadvan today is on the off-white 250 GT SWB Berlinetta #2439 GT which Bonhams had in Monterey for sale by private treaty (it is still owned by a Swiss collector). Now, one should buy both the off-white SWB 2439 GT AND the Breadvan 2819 GT, then remove the SWB body and put it on the Breadvan chassis 2819 GT and locate the original Breadvan engine 2819 GT, in order to make it a genuine SWB Sefac Hot Rod...........
     
  11. SefacHotRodder

    SefacHotRodder F1 World Champ

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    Marcel, do you not think that the "breadvan" is too significant in its current configuration to restore? Sure, it may have the wrong engine and it may be a "rebody" (that was done by a race team to beat the GTO's, not an individual who just wanted a new body) but is it worth destroying the breadvan's body just so someone can make a car "original". Why do this when it is such a unique part of motor racing history.
     
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  13. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    I didn't say that it MUST be done! It was a suggestion only........
    I agree that the Breadvan is too significant. However, even if the Breadvan body would be removed from chassis 2819 GT the Breadvan body wouldn't be destroyed!
    Marcel Massini
     
  14. Tspringer

    Tspringer F1 Veteran

    Apr 11, 2002
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    I agree with Marcel.

    Get both cars together with one owner. Restore both SWB's back to original condition. Take the breadvan body and build up another chassis for it.

    Then you have 2 significant SWB's AND a Ferrari based racing special WITH significant race history attached to it.

    The breadvan has one big issue to me from a value standpoint: its ugly. Sure it has some good angles and I love the cars history but lets face it, it does not have the eye appeal of a GTO!

    Its been done before. There were 2 D-Types each with good claim to the same serial number. The same guy ended up with both, merged all the original parts into a single car with undisputed claim on the VIN and he ended up with a perfect D-Type replica to play with.



    Terry
     
  15. SefacHotRodder

    SefacHotRodder F1 World Champ

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    Terry, i disagree. You do not have "2 significant SWB's AND a Ferrari based racing special WITH significant race history attached to it", you have 1 restored SWB, a breadvan/swb hybrid/replica and an SWB without a body. Where does it end? What would happen to 2439? Original body? In the end, you'd still end up with an SWB without a body or with a replica body. The breadvan IS 2819GT, thats the chassis it raced with. Why take the body off and put it on another? Its not same thing. You also have the problem of modifying back 2819GT to SWB spec and modifying/building the chassis for the breadvan's body to go on. What about the other re-bodied SWB's? Why not put the original bodies back on the re - bodied GTO's? When does it stop?

    I see your points, and i understand where you are coming from and i'd agree with you if it was any other car, but it comes down the the fact that the breadvan IS 2819 and should remain that way. But in the end, not everything has to be perfect. Not everything has to be matching #'s.


    Just my .02



    Chris
     
  16. CMY

    CMY F1 Veteran

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    Is it 'opposite day' and someone forgot to tell me? Am I actually reading the above correctly?

    There are other SWB's and D-types but there is only ONE Breadvan. It's gloriously incorrect and should stay that way, even if some think that it lacks 'eye appeal' or autistically try to get matching engine/body/chassis numbers for every car on the planet.

    The Breadvan had no history of racing with Ferrari and only became signifigant after leaving the factory. Putting it back to 'original, as-built' condition destroys what it is, even if the body lived on.

    C.
     
  17. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    Please note that EVERY Ferrari only became significant AFTER leaving the factory!!
    Marcel Massini
     
  18. judge4re

    judge4re F1 World Champ

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    Careful Marcel, people might think you have a sense of humor...

    Hope you didn't have any issues with flooding this week.
     
  19. bigodino

    bigodino F1 World Champ
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    Totally agree. What about the 330 CanAm car restored back to P4 configuration. I think that's a shame.
     
  20. SefacHotRodder

    SefacHotRodder F1 World Champ

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    Yep. And cars like 2231GT. Sure, it wasn't the most beautiful ferrari but it was unique. Now its like almost every other SWB
     
  21. El Wayne

    El Wayne Global Moderator
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    Sorry, but I don't see any shame in returning 2231's nose back to original. Maybe I'm mistaken but, unlike 2819, I don't believe that any contribution was made to motorsports history while the car looked like this:

    http://www.barchetta.cc/All.Ferraris/by-serial-number/odd-serial-numbers/index-1000/index-100/odd-2201gt-2299gt/166mm.0038m-1.html

    I have to admit that I, too, would have returned it to its original beauty.
     
  22. SefacHotRodder

    SefacHotRodder F1 World Champ

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    Sorry. I'm talking about its uniqueness. Sure, its not an important Ferrari but it is/was special. I love the looks of the SWB's. BUT any special SWB, breadvan or chiti special (i too think its ugly) should be kept that way. I'm not against people restoring cars, but i am against people restoring cars back to the original spec when they have special features that make them one of a kind.
     
  23. dretceterini

    dretceterini F1 Veteran

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    If there was just one real SWB or GTO on the face of the earth, than I could see putting it back to the original way it was built, but these "oddballs" are important, and I agree with Chris that they should be left as is...
     
  24. 134282

    134282 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    This thread is silly... No one would ever REALLY change the Breadvan back to the SWB that it was before it left the factory... That would be like altering the Mona Lisa so that she's no longer smiling - it's just absurd to even think...!
     
  25. SefacHotRodder

    SefacHotRodder F1 World Champ

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    You can't be sure about that. Just because you wouldn't doesn't mean that someone else wouldn't.
     
  26. John Ellis

    John Ellis Rookie

    Mar 3, 2005
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    Hi Marcel

    I think that you have made the most important point of all with this comment, and I do not regard it as a joke.

    The fact is that the history of a car starts when it leaves the factory and any restoration extinguishes the evidence of that history. That may or may not be important, depending on the car, but it is undeniable that the 'concours queens' are not what they were when they were made or originally used.

    Cheers

    John Ellis
     
  27. 134282

    134282 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    There's a certain EG head you can thank for that...
     
  28. SefacHotRodder

    SefacHotRodder F1 World Champ

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    The bottom line is that if you want an SWB in its "original" form, don't get the breadvan. I know of several SWB's on the market, 2 of those are even Sefac Hot Rods, just like the breadvan.
     

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