How is Brawn/Button winning races?? wtf? | FerrariChat

How is Brawn/Button winning races?? wtf?

Discussion in 'F1' started by climb, Apr 8, 2009.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. climb

    climb F1 Rookie

    Sep 19, 2006
    4,866
    Atlantic Beach Fl
    Full Name:
    Stuart K. Hicks
    Excuse my ignorance please.

    I haven't taken a day off in over 3 months now and have missed both races but have heard from people at car shows i work at about how crazy this F1 season is so far. Just don't have time to pick through threads to accumulate an overview of whats going on in F1 so far but am very hungry for info. Looking forward to time off soon. I could use a little F1 2009 101 please.


    My biggest questions are:

    How is Brawn racing winning when they are just a startup from the leftover pieces of Honda?
    How is Ferrari doing so badly..how did they drop the ball??

    Thanks..will check back for responses later.
     
  2. GTE

    GTE F1 World Champ

    Jun 24, 2004
    10,117
    The Netherlands
    Full Name:
    Marnix
    Honda abandoned development on their 2008 car quite early to concentrate on 2009. Their financial problems didn´t hurt the developmentprogram. Other than that, like Williams and Toyota, Brawn makes use of a type of diffuser that creates significantly more downforce than a standard diffuser. As we speak, protests have been lodged and the World Motorsport Council will rule on april 14th.

    They are trailing the ´diffuser´-guys in terms of laptimes and they have made some huge tactical blunders. But don´t forget the other ´usual suspects´ are dropping the ball as well, notably McLaren. They too lack the speed and find themselve in the midst of another foul play-controversy following Australia.
     
  3. Far Out

    Far Out F1 Veteran

    Feb 18, 2007
    9,768
    Stuttgart, Germany
    Full Name:
    Florian
    a) The new rules mixed everything up
    b) Honda started the development on their 2009 car very early in 2008. They had the most time to thorougly engineer their new car to suit the new rules. Brawn being a genius didn't do any harm either.
    b) Ferrari and McLaren focused on winning the 2008 championship and neglected developing their 2009 car. Both cars are midfield at best now. Add the race strategy f***ups of Domenicali and his crew, and you can explain the current situation.
     
  4. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 6, 2004
    18,396
    ON
    Full Name:
    CH
    Brawn GP (Honda) had a weak car last year. The new rules mean last year's efforts don't count for much now. Brawn GP got a head start on some of the other teams who were still trying to succeed last year. Mercedes engine also seems to have improved their pace. They don't run KERS so one less headache to concentrate on. Three teams run a rear diffuser that gives them an advantage over others who were not as forward thinking in their 2009 car program. After an appeal in Paris of the diffuser 'unfair advantage' the points may change. I think they will get to keep their diffuser design and the points that go with it...

    Ferrari can't get out of their own way.
    CH
     
  5. modena2904

    modena2904 Formula Junior
    Owner

    Jul 6, 2007
    917
    Ellicott City, MD
    Full Name:
    Eric
    I think the conventional wisdom is that Honda sacrificed in-season development last year in favor of the new 2009 car. So all of their resources last year were geared towards the new car, and this was before Honda pulled the plug, so the resources were significant. BGP inherited all that.

    Some additional points... First, as part of the transition from Honda to BGP, they got the Mercedes engine. By all accounts, it is more powerful and more reliable than Honda ever was. Second, because of the required rapid transition from Honda to Mercedes power, they didn't bother with KERS. That has kept their development focused, and allowed them some additional design freedom in optimizing the car.

    Finally, note that BGP has a more "liberal" interpretation of the diffuser rule (along with Toyota and Williams) which no doubt helps. But there's no mistaking that it is a great car even without the diffuser.

    Last point -- Ross is probably the most astute and capable team pricincipal on the grid. Even given all of the above, I don't think they would be where they are without Ross' leadership.

    My $.02.

    - Eric
     
  6. LightGuy

    LightGuy Four Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 4, 2004
    45,899
    Texas
    Full Name:
    David
    #6 LightGuy, Apr 8, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2009
    Last years script Title was; "Denied rookie makes dramatic comeback".

    This years is; "Underdog team rises from the ashes proving anything can be done". A best seller in todays economic climate.

    Did you loose your's ?
     
  7. RP

    RP F1 World Champ

    Feb 9, 2005
    17,667
    Bocahuahua, Florxico
    Full Name:
    Tone Def
    New rules, level playing field, clever engineer reading the rules.
     
  8. SrfCity

    SrfCity F1 World Champ

    Team Brawn's the new kid in town with the 900 lb gorilla sponsor. Read between the lines.
     
  9. Ferrari 360 CS

    Ferrari 360 CS F1 Veteran

    Dec 4, 2004
    6,892
    Cape Town,SA
    Full Name:
    Jacques
    Resulting in the best car...
     
  10. Drive550PFB

    Drive550PFB Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    The best diffuser.

    That engine will let go before long.
     
  11. RP

    RP F1 World Champ

    Feb 9, 2005
    17,667
    Bocahuahua, Florxico
    Full Name:
    Tone Def
    The diffuser issue is an excuse by the teams that got caught with their technical development pants down. If a team with a limited budget like Williams can figure out the diffusers, why didn't Ferrari and McLaren with their big budgets?

    On April 14, the decision will not be if the diffusers are illegal, but should the FIA change the rules to help the balance of the field.

    Brawn, Toyota, and Williams deserve to win it all this year.
     
  12. rmani

    rmani F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Nov 1, 2003
    7,334
    NJ
    Full Name:
    RMani
    the mclaren had better reliability than ferrari last year. whatever blunders mercedes made in the past seem to be rectified.
     
  13. Whisky

    Whisky Three Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 27, 2006
    32,112
    In the flight path to Offutt
    Full Name:
    The original Fernando
    1) Sometimes a s--tbox chassis, put together with a great motor, work great together. The chassis seems to like Mercedes power.
    Remember - Frank Williams started with a March chassis in the early 70's, and developed his own dominant chassis in the 80's thru
    most of the 90's.

    2) Bad management starts at the top, there is nobody worth a s--- running the asylum anymore.
     
  14. Far Out

    Far Out F1 Veteran

    Feb 18, 2007
    9,768
    Stuttgart, Germany
    Full Name:
    Florian
    It isn't a s--tbox chassis. It's the best of them all right now.
     
  15. nsxrebel

    nsxrebel Formula 3

    Jan 8, 2004
    1,906
    Damn right, even if it had a Honda engine, the chassis is still the best so far.
     
  16. avishar

    avishar Karting

    Jul 5, 2008
    113
    bangalore,india
    Full Name:
    avishar dutta
    Ok now if at the court ruling on 14th it is decided that the diffusers are illegal,will brawn gp be stripped of the wins and the points along with williams and toyota?
     
  17. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jan 26, 2005
    22,607
    Gates Mills, Ohio
    Full Name:
    Jon
    This whole season would effectively be meaningless if that happened.
     
  18. Drive550PFB

    Drive550PFB Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Dont think so. It would just apply going forward, I think. I like guys who build a better mousetrap, but I am not a fan of Button.
     
  19. Fast_ian

    Fast_ian Two Time F1 World Champ

    Sep 25, 2006
    23,397
    Campbell, CA
    Full Name:
    Ian Anderson
    +1

    IIRC, "someone's" on record as saying just that.

    OTOH, we are talking about the WMSC here, so *anything's* possible......
     
  20. climb

    climb F1 Rookie

    Sep 19, 2006
    4,866
    Atlantic Beach Fl
    Full Name:
    Stuart K. Hicks
    Thank you all for the responses.

    Looking forward to the fireworks this season.
     
  21. Tipo815

    Tipo815 F1 Rookie

    Nov 1, 2003
    3,565
    Newport Beach, CA
    Full Name:
    Jeffrey
    No one has a crystal ball but if Honda had not pulled the plug prematurely their engines would be powering an awesome chassis and winning races!

    It must kill them to see this happening! Millions upon millions of dollars spent in previous years for nothing and the moment they pull the plug - a Mercedes powerplant in a chassis they funded the development of - is winning races! What a bummer for Honda!

    On the flip side I'm sure Mercedes is happy to be powering the Brawn cars considering that their factory backed team is (again) faltering with problems, controversy, etc. At least someone (Brawn) is flying their colors well! :)
     
  22. LightGuy

    LightGuy Four Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 4, 2004
    45,899
    Texas
    Full Name:
    David
    Courtroom or track ?
     
  23. climb

    climb F1 Rookie

    Sep 19, 2006
    4,866
    Atlantic Beach Fl
    Full Name:
    Stuart K. Hicks
    Both
     
  24. frefan

    frefan F1 Veteran

    Apr 21, 2004
    7,370
    That f'n diffuser is tits
     
  25. J. Salmon

    J. Salmon F1 Rookie
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 27, 2005
    4,367
    VA
    I keep wanting to ask... was it Schumi, or was it Brawn?
     

Share This Page