How is your P4 knowledge?

That 917/30 is sure a beast!

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150175408977

 

See this other current thread in the Vintage section: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21625

 

I just read again this entire thread... Very interesting... Seems that P4 rear views are rare, so I post one from an old German magazine (Auto Motor und Sport). Driver was Jonathan WILLIAMS during tests at Monza, early in 1967.
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Thanks for sharing that, Francis. Hmmm. 'PROVA MO-31' (again in the middle) not MO-36 this time. That kinda throws a spanner in the works. Can you please tell us the exact date of publication of that photo, or the AM und S article it was taken from. Also, I believe the photo may have been miscaptioned. From the two thin stripes on the back of it, I would suspect that is actually Chris Amon's helmet.

 

Francis. Depending on the date that you reply with, I'm wondering if that photo is from a testing session just before Brands Hatch BOAC 500 on July 30th - which would mean that the car is either #0856; #0858 or #0860 (which carried PROVA MO-31 - but on the right).

See really awful quality photo below (which I'd saved from some now-defunct website). Note the thin stripes on Amon's helmet.
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This one is better Paul.
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It certainly is Boudewijn. Thanks !

 

yes, and helmet Williams is red/bordeaux (not vin. . . color)

 

You're right Paul, It's Chris AMON in the car. If you look on the rear mirror with a magnifying glass, you can see the Kiwi on the side of the Helmet!
Unfortunatelly, I only kept the photos from that article, but I noted on the back "early 1967". There were only two photos... The other one shows Jonathan WILLIAMS setting in the cockpit without his helmet. I think the test session at Monza was just before the Daytona race.

 

Ah Yes .... so indeed you can.

 

Sorry, but I don't think it can be that early in the season, Francis. Although he was hired by Ferrari by 1967, Jonathan Williams didn't get much in the way of drives (or possibly testing) until much later in the season. Mike Parkes did most of the testing on the P4's in the early part of the season (before his accident at Spa) - i.e. for the Daytona 24 Hours.

See: http://www.f1rejects.com/drivers/williams/biography.html

I stand by what I wrote in post #156 - I still believe your photo shows a test session prior to the Brands Hatch race - in July, 67.

 

Surely you're right again Paul... Too bad that I throwed away the rest of the article. But why did I noticed on the back of the photos "early 1967"...? Here is the second photo with Jonathan WILLIAMS in the car. But that's not a P4, rather a 206s...
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If you read that link, I posted above, Francis - it actually does say, further down:

'But Ferrari also had larger sports cars, the 330 P3 and P4 Spyders which competed at Le Mans. Williams tested these too but didn't get the opportunity to race in the 24hr classic.'

.... so you may be right.

 

When my Dad researched the history on his SWB, one of the former owners wrote a letter which included a small anecdote about cruising down the autostrada towards Maranello at an indicated 120mph when he sighted a small speck in a the rear view mirror. Moments later he had to swerve out the way when Mike Parkes (he later discovered at the factory) came screaming past testing a P4 on the road travelling at somewhere on the interesting side of 170mph! Apparently the swerve caused a bottle of champagne to burst in the SWB over the owners wife who was not amused.

No idea if it's true but no reason to believe it wasn't.

 

Why does 0854 as raced at Le Mans and Brands Hatch have different rear grill material than 0846/0856?

 

Jim. Answer could simply be - what's a few bits of 'Expamet' expanded aluminium mesh, between friends ?

Or alternatively, as you wrote yourself, in the '0850' thread: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=137278581&postcount=130

Note in the photo below (courtesey of 'GIOTTO') that #0854 has the separate rear corner spoilers, under discussion in that thread.
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Apologies for posting this here, rather than in the '0844' thread ....

.... but interestingly #0844 (in her most recent, post-Symbolic 2000 resto, tail clip) uses woven wire mesh, rather than 'expamet'.
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Possibly even more interesting (for us P4ophiles ) How about this variation on #0844's tail openings (or lack of them) ?

Scan of a magazine photo of #0844, in the Monza paddock, prior to the '67 1000Kms, kindly emailed me by Francis Muller ('GIOTTO').

Note the apparent lack of tail openings - and what appears to be a license plate fitted !! Comments / answers anybody ?
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Hummm???

 

Hi again, Paul...

Here's another photo from an old Auto-Sprint magazine. Still #0844 n°9 at Monza 67, but WITH a rear opening!
I think the car in the paddock photo HAS the opening too... Maybe it's just a reflexion due to the angle of the photo...? On both photos is also the licence plate light in the middle...
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No, Sorry - I think your wrong there, Francis. On the higher resolution scan you sent me, it can be seen - much clearer that it's not a reflection, nor any other 'trick of the light'. The rear of #0844's tail is clearly 'flush- panelled' in that photo. Apart from that, the license plate is also proud of that vertical surface. You can see a slight shadow underneath it.

Agreed !

LOL, Francis !! That's the very same photo that I would have posted next - myself - to add to the puzzle !

Perhaps the N.A.R.T. engineers thought that they had come up with some new aerodynamic 'tweak' - at the expense of cooling, by blanking off the apertures in the rear bodywork. They certainly seem to have opened up the 'spare wheel hole' for the race - if not the upper outlets, under the corner spoilers. Perhaps 'Il Commendatore' came along, saw the tail, and had a quiet word in their ears ....
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Correction - my mistake (or your poorer quality version of the photo, Francis).
In fact, the upper outlets under the corner spoilers were opened. In my slightly clearer version of the same image, you can just about make out the dense woven-wire mesh in the L.H. aperture - very much as #0844 uses today (see my post #168).
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Compare that photo above, from Monza, with this one of #0844 from Le Mans, where the dense woven-wire mesh panels, under the corner spoilers, have since been replaced by a very open 'expamet' mesh (ably pointed out by the fellow with a *** in his hand ).
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I was browsing another (totally unrelated) thread in the UK section, when I came across this superb signature quotation by '360trev':

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/member.php?u=25705

"The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing." - Albert Einstein