how long for the ff then?

so in other threads we have been discussing how 612 prices have dropped to the level of good 456mgt's in parts of europe, with the last oto with normal mileage said to have sold for 70k euros. this does not portend well for the price stability of the ff......

how long do you all reckon it will take for the ff prices to drop to 100k euros? ie 65% off the new price.? i reckon by 2015/16

 

If the guru's on Fchat are as correct with their estimation that the California would "sink like a stone" in one year when it was first shown in 2009, their FF estimation accuracy will be plus or minus a century or two.

 

no idea of how long it will take, but I hope it will happen sooner rather than later as I really like the way it looks

 

About right Ross

 

Ferrari keeps making most new models for 5 years at a time.
So, the bigger drops in FF asking prices will be when the next model comes out to replace it.
I guess that will be around 2017.
.

 

Ferrari has been pretty skillful at maintaining new vehicle values by limiting distribution. And I would guess that some dealers will ask potential F12 buyers that it would be "prudent" for them to purchase an FF first to help insure a higher place in line for the new Berlinetta. It might take a few years for any significant value drop on the FF. Especially since it is at the beginning of its production cycle. At the end of the cycle is when the values tend to soften.......kinda like the discounted Scuds?

 

I'm hoping they get cheap so I can buy one, put a lift kit, mudder tires and other goodies on and do proper off roading.

Dave

 

I'm very glad you brought up the depreciation concerns of the FF, Ross. Every time I read about FF depreciation I'm hoping that some guru on this board will deliver an indisputable sermon that reveals the road ahead, but alas no joy.

There are more than a few among us, I'd imagine, that have been contacted by our dealers about open FF allocation slots available. While I like the FF quite a bit, actually, and I have been given an allocation that it looks like I'll pass over, I'd like to move forward but cannot get my head behind my heart. When paying $350K+ for a car, there is a ton of altitude from which to drop, and my brain's business side demands prudence.

Perhaps this attitude will torpedo my standing for the F12, which I think will become a cult classic and a sound auto investment for those lucky enough to get one. The irony is I agree with those who say that the FF depreciation cycle won't start for a little while, which means that I not only sit out an FF, but I further degrade my ability to by the F12. It's like a Shakespearian tragedy.

 

It's a dangerous game forcing buyers to take an FF to get an F12.

I've bought two new Ferrari's below msrp. and bet other's will before this tree stops growing to the sky.

Those who forget the 308 GT's rotting on the docks are condemned to see it happen to them.

 

I have spoken to several dealers on the FF and it is clear that there are a lot of demo or inventory cars available. Of course it is extremely rare for dealers on a new model Ferrari to not have all their orders be customer order cars. I think this is a statement as to customer demand and the general view on the styling. Dealers are offering discounts on these cars and I have no doubt that will mean that the depreciation curve will be steep for the FF. Four seater 12 cylinder Ferraris have always had heavier depreciation (look at the 612 vs 599) but given the radical looks of the FF my bet is depreciation will be heavier than in the past.

 

It'll drop like a stone as soon as a replacement is released just like every other model line for the last 20 years (with exception of limited production models).

 

IMVHO...if $150k makes a difference in your life, then you shouldnt be buying a FERRARI.

 

Traditionally 2+2's have had the highest depreciation rate - FF will keep that tradition intact

 

you are funny.

 

You should qualify this statement to say NEW Ferrari... I've owned my lowly 355 for almost five years and never sweat the depreciation or maintenance in any way. But trust me, $150k makes a BIG difference in my life. I'm taking donations from all you guys who consider $150k insignificant. Hmmmm, maybe I should hold a benefit for myself and invite all you fine gents...operators are standing by!

 

very true.
i did mean a NEW ferrari, and actually even more accurately, a new V-12 FERRARI.
they will always cost the most to own. but they are worth every penny IMO.

 

Napolis, I have been offered an FF slot twice and have ordered twice only to pull out twice. I am fine with the looks but the depreciation specter was what dissuaded me. Can I hear it from a veteran such as yourself: is the FF a bad idea?

Also, can you elaborate on your tree metaphor. Thanks. -letsgo

 

+1

And a corollary -- with the trend of general concern about FF depreciation revealed, will this potentially impact positively the more recent depreciation curve of the 612? While the FF offers a phenomenal driving experience given the weight and 2+2 aspects of the car, the 612 is no slouch and offers a more traditional GT design for those truly uncomfortable with the FF shooting brake visuals.

 

Ferrari is a different company then it was which is what happens. As they now have raised productive capacity they have to broaden their product range and entice markets that didn't exist when I bought my 275 GTB in 1971. (India and China for example) They feel that the FF will sell well in China and the Middle East and they may be right but personally I believe the cost of Ferrari's has risen too quickly and the cost of options on their cars is silly. Meg bought a Fully loaded Bentley in a special color and IMHO it's a much better value than an FF. The Tree growing to the sky represents all bubbles. 400K+ for a loaded FF vs 230K for a loaded Bentley isn't something I believe can go on. There's a thread where a poster claims he was offered a non optioned California at 10K under list. Buyers who in the past would buy a new 458 Coupe drive it for a year and flip it back to the dealer at what they paid for it against a 458 Spyder and the Dealers are learning that this game is over. You can't sell a year old 458 for what you paid for it much less for 50K over that. These are tea leaves that those who see the approaching storm are reading. We may be wrong and I hope I am but I really believe that this tree's growth is slowing and I know that no tree grows to the sky and that when the wind blows from the North it's time to check the storm shutters.

 

totally agree with the ff value proposition. FF is $100k over priced. but i am not so sure this is a new issue. you can always argue price on any luxury good. clothes, wine, cars, and find a suitable alternative much cheaper.

 

True but IMO Ferrari with the FF is way over the market even more than they were with the 612 and we see what happened there.

 

612's on this side of the pond seem to have stopped depreciating. There are very, very few OTO's available........more's the pity.

 

Here's a 612 with no bids and BIN of 95K with 10K miles. What do you think a Dealer would pay you for it? 75K if you could find one who'd buy it from you or take it in trade? Less?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ferrari-/251043841003?pt=US_Cars_Trucks

Cost about $21 per mile to own this one...

 

nice one

 

i was talking with the dealer recently while waiting for my car, and asked him about the ff sales.....he always exaggerates but he even said it was a tough proposal. he is one of the highest selling dealers in the world here, its like shooting fish in a barrel, and the 4 wheel drive is a shoe in here. BUT at $400 k.....well there are a lot of other choices. so i think its slow. anecdotally, i did see 3 in one day up in verbier, but i have not seen a single one in geneva. a few in london but thats a whole different story.

so from my perspective this is a much more difficult car to sell than the 612 ever was. so my guess is they wont build that many. which ironically might mean great upside in 20 years !