How Long Would This Issue Take To Resolve | FerrariChat

How Long Would This Issue Take To Resolve

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by F355 Fan 82, Jan 29, 2018.

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  1. F355 Fan 82

    F355 Fan 82 F1 Veteran

    Jul 22, 2006
    9,063
    I posted a while back that my new to me 575 was making a whistle sound while in 6th gear. I took it to a great tech here near me who found the car was short on gear oil by quite a bit and the fluid that came out was black and badly burned. So being that I had the car just a few weeks and it was supposed to include a "major service" when i bought it(which turned out to be just timing belts)... I called the dealer I bought it from and he asked me to bring the car back to have his guys look at the car. His guys are saying this via email "was a chip off one of the teeth, looks like a piece of Foriegn matter had been in the oil. There was no signs of overheating which you would get with lack of fluid." This was the dealer who wrote me that, the shop he uses for all his work, very reputable on here FWIW this what they had to say.....

    Upon disassembly of gearbox, found problem with 6th gear fit to lay shaft. Appears gear hardening failure, some transfer to main shaft fit gear. Both will be replaced, remaining gears wearing normal and no bearing scoring or blueing. Internals very clean. Ring and pinion factory mill marks still present on drive surface (not broken in yet).

    now the guy I was using in Miami was probably the most knowledgable guy I've ever been around he kinda chuckled and sent me this hilarious response

    "No signs of overheating except your 6th gear is damaged and the fluid that I took out was BLACK. I would bet a ton of money that heat damage can be seen on 6th gear and its mating gear.

    A piece of foreign matter??? The gears in that transmission go through a process called case hardening that makes the mating surfaces of the gear extremely hard and durable without making the entire gear brittle. That process makes the surface of the gear harder than a woodpeckers lips. What kind of foreign matter could have gotten in there that would be hard enough to damage a case hardened gear, and how did it get in there??? Maybe the car has previously been driven through a diamond mine and a piece of diamond teleported itself through the case of the transmission."

    Anyways Im not paying a dime for the work so the dealer I bought it from insists his guys have to do it, even though I wanted my guy to do the work, but anyways the shop that has the car just got back to me after 12 days or so. They say the parts have been ordered from italy and are on the way....whats the timeframe for something like that for the parts to come in and then fix the issue?
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  2. ago car nut

    ago car nut F1 Veteran
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    Aug 29, 2008
    5,246
    Madison Ohio
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    David A.
    One question? Where did all the gear oil go? If it was leaking, it had to be noticed. and #2? Someone did a major timing belt change and never checked fluid level?
    Any way, not your car model, but I had to wait 3 months for my TR gears to be made in Australia. The TR is a 30 year old car and Ferrari don't have parts. I had a contact in Italy that had gears available without synchro teeth rings. But I passed because of uncertain.
     
  3. F355 Fan 82

    F355 Fan 82 F1 Veteran

    Jul 22, 2006
    9,063
    #3 F355 Fan 82, Jan 29, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2018
    So thats the thing, there were NO LEAKS. The dealer is saying the car belonged to a good friend of his and that guy never had a leak and I never had a leak in the 5 weeks I had it so thats unknown. What is known is that the car was serviced by the shop doing the work now since 2013 and there was never any 75w90 gear oil on any of the receipts they did so the last time gear oil was changed was in 2013 before previous owner got it and my tech here believes that was the last time it was filled and possibly improperly filled bc of how complex the gearbox in the maranello is to fill, he explained the process to me and said lots of people do it improperly. When the clutch was done 3000 miles ago there was some donax on the receipt which they were trying to say was the gear oil but my tech who has been so helpful helping me through this ordeal here, he explained how that isn't even the right fluid if thats what they're trying to say.

    I asked them again this morning for a timeframe bc in 12 days nobody has given me one and via email all they said was "parts ordered from italy". I know technically im not a customer of this shop bc the dealer I bought the car from is paying for the work but dont I have a right to now the timeframe involved with the work after 12 days? Just sucks the guy who was helping me here locally was so on point and talked to me about everything and explained everything just perfectly. The shop with my car now, yes they have a very good reputation on here but you dont get that personal level of service like i was getting with my guy here. 12 days my car has been there and all ive gotten is the small paragraph I posted above from them. Obviously since Im not paying I wouldn't get an estimate but still nobody is telling me much else. Just a sucky first ferrari experience and really making me regret my purchase.

    Im not a mechanic and I really dont know much about this stuff and id love to learn, but for me I have one guy who has helped me so much and is one of the most decorated ferrari techs around and he says the answer the shop gave me was a bit comical especially the foreign matter part, as you can see his response.

    Again learned alot here, first ferrari, and what the dealer was saying as a "major" included with sale was just a timing belt service but it says fluids checked/topped off too, so i dont know....but they're taking care of it so I guess they're in agreement shop + dealer in where the error was

    Would the shop not even really know a timeframe for something like that?
     
  4. ago car nut

    ago car nut F1 Veteran
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    F355, I hope your Ferrari experience turns out to be a good one!
     
  5. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Feb 20, 2015
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    Having had to wait 3 months for particular Ferrari parts, I wouldn't fret over a couple of weeks. You don't give your location in your profile, so it's difficult to say how long shipping would take. If you order parts through Eurospares or Ricambi (and they have those parts), the parts can arrive within days. If Italy is involved, the process can take much longer. Sometimes the factory simply doesn't have the parts, so you have to look for other sources, including second hand dealers and eBay. Ferrari is not famous for holding stock of parts for older cars, but is any manufacturer? I've owned my F355 for less than 3 years and it's already been off the road for a total of over 6 months due to shortage of parts and other issues.

    Ditto
     
  6. F355 Fan 82

    F355 Fan 82 F1 Veteran

    Jul 22, 2006
    9,063
    Im in south florida, the parts are indeed coming from italy as i was told. They've already been ordered so hopefully within days then? What about the process of the actual work involved? Like I said I really wish the shop doing the work would have called me to tell me what was going on and the time involved bc like I said the dealer is doing this for me for free so part of me has nothing to complain about but at the same time I dont feel bad bc the car was sold to me in that condition and the shop working on it didn't properly service it over the last few years otherwise this wouldn't have been an issue. I was just curious about the timeframe of the entire job bc tomorrow is going on 2 weeks and Im just out of the loop besides that small paragraph I copied you the shop emailed me. I emailed them this morning about this and all I got was "parts have been ordered from italy" lol thats it.
     
  7. Motob

    Motob Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 11, 2003
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    Frederick, Maryland
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    Brian Brown
    Were the parts ordered from a factory Ferrari dealership? If so, they should be able to tell if the parts are in stock at the factory in Italy. If they are, then it should only take a week or so for them to get here. If Ferrari doesn't have them in stock in Italy, then it could take "Some Days" for the parts to arrive. "Some days" is the Italian way of saying they have no idea of how long it will take.
    I was told by the curator of the factory Ducati museum, that it would take "some days" for him to send me confirmation of a factory race bikes history that I owned.
    That was 17 years ago.
     
  8. F355 Fan 82

    F355 Fan 82 F1 Veteran

    Jul 22, 2006
    9,063
    motob see things like that I dont have the answer for bc the shop working on the car was vague with me, I didn't want to say the name of the shop bc its actually a really reputable shop. I feel like the shop has great techs but their business side of things ie relaying info to customers is really not good. The guy I work with locally does it 100x better than them but having him fix the car wasn't an option bc like I said the dealer I bought it from is paying to resolve the issue........motob what do you think of the issue my car is facing? Have you seen this before? Is it a complicated fix?
     
  9. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Depends on the shop. Do they have any reason to prioritize your car? (e.g. Is this car your daily driver?) How many staff do they have and how many are skilled at gearbox overhaul? How many hoists do they have? Is there plenty of working space or do they have to shuffle cars about to get to yours. Do they have all the sealants, gaskets, fluids and tools at hand?

    Unless it's a big shop, the more time the staff spend on answering emails and phone calls, the less time they have to work on your and other folk's cars. I took my car to a small independent Ferrari technician. I sometimes got update emails from him very late into the evening (His time was precious, so I knew not to bombard him with update requests every second day). I suppose you could ask them to let you know when the part arrives. That may give you some sort of baseline, noting that reassembly time may take a little longer than assembly time. When gearboxes are disassembled, sometimes other broken parts are found (and, if unlucky, parts may be broken during disassembly). Anyway, look at the parts breakdown of the gearbox (e.g. on the Ricambi or Eurospares sites). Is 6th gear on the end of the shaft and easy to remove?
     
  10. F355 Fan 82

    F355 Fan 82 F1 Veteran

    Jul 22, 2006
    9,063
    I havent bugged them at all, i have sent them 3 emails in 13 days, and their responses are short and dont say much. They have receptionists, its not like the techs are answering the phones. Me wishing someone would go over whats going on with my car after 2 weeks in no way slows them down. I mean we're leaving a $100k+ vehicle and in 2 weeks I haven't been updated at all as to whats happening other than parts are ordered, Its just not good business. Nobody explained a damn thing to me about what this "foreign matter" in the oil was even though I asked via email. Personally the tech helping me locally thinks the shop is possibly having to fix the car on their dime bc they serviced the car the last 5 years and never once changed the gear oil and the burned up gear oil could have been the cause. That's what Im not thrilled about, I have a potentially angry shop working on my car fixing their wrongdoing. I dont know I hope its just the shop is busy and cant call me but still wish someone would go over matters with me even though Im not paying them, at the end of the day its still my car. I've spoken with the dealer I bought my car from and he really doesn't know much about whats going on but he's the one insisting the car had to be done at this shop. Again my tech locally feels that since its mostly labor, the shop working on the car now is probably just eating the cost and doing it bc they're somewhat admitting fault either the dealer or the shop in this whole matter by taking the car back and doing the work.
     
  11. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,252
    Have your LAWYER give them a call.
     
  12. F355 Fan 82

    F355 Fan 82 F1 Veteran

    Jul 22, 2006
    9,063
    haha Im trying to avoid all that even though my tech out here said I do have a case, they agreed to fix the issue at no cost to me so in the end thats all that matters. Im a bit disappointed to start off my experience with this car in this matter but if they're willing to be honest and fix it for me for free then I have no problem with it.
     
  13. finnerty

    finnerty F1 World Champ

    May 18, 2004
    10,406
    As for the "low oil level" in the gearbox, that does NOT always mean a leak.

    Check your service records (that came with car) to see whether the gearbox oil has ever been changed ---- you can always check with the Factory (Ferrari) Dealer service network, as they may have a record of it as well.

    You don't say how old, or what mileage, is on the car...... but, if previous owners were following Factory service guidelines, the oil likely would have been changed at some point by now.

    So, here is my point ---- rather than a leak, when the oil was changed, it could have simply been under-filled as well..... which would account for the low level / burning.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    All things considered, sounds like the place you bought it from is competent, willing to make it "right" free of charge to you, and all they are asking is that you wait a while for them to get the factory-correct parts in hand ?

    In the world of buying used exotic cars (especially Ferrari), if this is the sum total of your "pain" on this particular one, I would suggest you count your blessings....... and move on. This is nothing. :)
     
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  14. Dave rocks

    Dave rocks F1 World Champ
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    Truer words never spoken :)

    OP - Too bad Matt's not doing the work - you could rest easy if he was...
     
  15. F355 Fan 82

    F355 Fan 82 F1 Veteran

    Jul 22, 2006
    9,063
    He's a great guy, he will def be doing all my work moving forward. I really wanted him to do this particular job but the dealer I got it from wasn't giving me a choice but he definitely saved my ass bc they were trying to say there was no way the damage was caused by them and then after a few lengthy email rebuttals from matt + some pics, they agreed to take the car back and do all the work.. He is just so knowledgable and whats nice is you deal directly with him, the place my car is at now, its been 2+ weeks, nobody tells you anything, you cant talk with the mechanic, nobody gives you anything.
     
  16. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
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    Apr 1, 2004
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    SMG
    On a more technical side, old oil will have broken down, that's bad for gears. Low oil is also bad but for slightly different reasons. Oil has two jobs, thermal heat transfer and lubrication via a thin film. Oil breaks down over time and use, then it's ability to provide a separation layer begins to fail. If the level gets to low then it can not sufficiently carry away heat and it breaks down faster.
    Onto gears, basic overview.
    Gears actually slide against each other, there is a very small gap that the oil fills to keep the gears from destroying each other. That's why oil is so critical to the life of a gearbox.
    As to damaged gears, foreign material can cause damage, so can old or lack of oiling. As noted above, the damage that can occur there would be galling, pitting and broken teeth and depending on how hot the gears got, blueing.
     

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