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How many Ferraris?

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by davidgoerndt, Nov 20, 2004.

  1. davidgoerndt

    davidgoerndt Formula 3

    Oct 25, 2004
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    Orlando, FL
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    David Goerndt
    This question was prompted by a comment I read in a mailing list I belong to. The poster stated that the reason Ferraris were so pricey was because the factory destroyed cars that were no longer useful. This sounded wrong, so I called the guy on it. From the reading I've done, Ferrari usually sold their cars to private individuals when the particular model was no longer competitive. This got me thinking, how many Ferraris still exist (I'm only interested in the models covered by this discussion group)? Cavallino magazine lists the generally agreed on number of cars produced in each model, however, they don't list the surviving number of cars in each model. My question is, is there a source that has information on the number of surviving cars from each model?
    Has anyone put together a database of serial numbers from each model that still exist? I realize that this is probably a monumental task because many of the surviving cars have been rebodied or used as donors for replicas that a definative answer is impossible.

    David Goerndt
     
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  3. Bryanp

    Bryanp F1 Rookie
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    Aug 13, 2002
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    I think you need to distinguish between racing and production Ferraris. It is well-documented that Ferrari rountinely scrapped/cannabalized its race cars - see 0846 and the fact that not a single original F1 shark-nose Ferrari survived past 1963.


    I do not know of any instance of Ferrari SpA intentionally destroying a production model except for crash-testing.
     
  4. davidgoerndt

    davidgoerndt Formula 3

    Oct 25, 2004
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    David Goerndt
    I didn't see the need to separate racing from production models since so few of each were produced in the time frame I'm interested in.
    The fact that Ferrari routinely used previous models as a base for newer models is part of the reason I asked the question. The history of some of the early racing models is pretty convoluted due to this fact. I know several of the racing models were crashed and scrapped, some have been destroyed only to turn up (0720 TR for example) again and some were recycled into newer models. From 1947-73, Ferrari produced less than 12,000 cars both racing and production. My question was, how many of those still exist today?

    David Goerndt
     
  5. bobleb

    bobleb Formula 3

    Mar 9, 2004
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    Bob Lebenson
    The Ferrari Market Letter published a list in issue 27/11 which included numbers produced and serial number range for all production models. I think it went up through 1999, so it ended with the 355 series (no 360's, etc.)
     
  6. Erich

    Erich Formula 3

    Sep 9, 2003
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    Erich Coiner
    You are asking a question that no one knows the answer to.

    There are lots of opinions but no one KNOWS.

    All 30 something GTO's still exist.

    Tom S. is pulling 250GTE's out of barns practically every week. I'll bet a lot of people thought those cars were destroyed, but they were just sleeping.

    ERich
     
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  8. davidgoerndt

    davidgoerndt Formula 3

    Oct 25, 2004
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    David Goerndt
    I'll bet someone knows, maybe not every single car, but a good percentage of them. The early cars are far to valuable and rare to have vanished. I would think it would be fairly straightforward, take each model with the number produced and the number known to exist today. The low production early racing models and production models regularly show up at concours events serial numbers are well known, so a list probably exists somewhere of thiose that have surfaced so far. Ferrari has such a devoted following that it seems like someone would have cross-referenced the number produced with those known to exist if only for the reason of determining how many are left to locate.
     
  9. JonBrent

    JonBrent Formula Junior

    Nov 10, 2003
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    David,

    Be careful now! You are asking questions which should not be asked!

    There is a group, who's name I dare not utter, who knows these things. They are shadowy by nature, yet they are here.

    These are the guys who know where the 'special' barn cars are, and track every serial number.

    Ye gads, I've already said too much...
     
  10. Bryanp

    Bryanp F1 Rookie
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    careful, Jon, or you might end up sleeping with 0590MD . . . .
     
  11. Ken

    Ken F1 World Champ

    Oct 19, 2001
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    We ask this question on the Europa group every year or so. No way to tell but use this: figure 90% remain for 0-10 years old, 70% 10-20, 40% 20-30, 10% the rest. Who's up on Ferrari production? What number does this represent?

    Ken
     
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  13. coachi

    coachi Formula 3

    May 1, 2002
    2,108
    SC USA
    The excellent Ferrari magazine, Cavallino, has a listing of all Ferrari cars and their values, in each issue, under Mercata.
     
  14. El Wayne

    El Wayne F1 World Champ
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    Aug 1, 2002
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    Was "Mercato," now "Guida."
     
  15. Bill P

    Bill P Karting

    Jan 27, 2004
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    William D. Preston
    David:

    There really isn't an answer to the question as you asked it. The reason is that after awhile no one knows whether missing older Ferraris have been scrapped, not seen for awhile, or sleeping in someone's barn.

    Take 250 GTEs/330 Americas for example (which I try to keep track of). There were about 1,006 built. I say "about" because some cars thought to be GTEs have turned out to be 330 GT prototypes, etc. As of December 31, 2003, we knew who owned 197 of them. For 253 we knew the last owner but not, perhaps, the current one. For 311 we knew the last time they had been seen or sold, but not the owner. 38 had been parted out. That leaves 207 where we do not have any information. However in 2003, 27 cars for which we had no information were located (some by Tom Shaughnessy). So far in 2004, which isn't over yet, we have found another 18 or so. And so it goes on. Remember that it has been more than 40 years since these cars were built.

    Additionally, as of December 31, 2003 we knew that 136 of these cars had been "transformed" into something else--like 250 GTSWB Berlinetta replicas which is the most popular choice, or 250 Testa Rossas or 250 GT SWB Californias, etc. So they aren't really GTEs anymore.

    -Bill Preston
     
  16. davidgoerndt

    davidgoerndt Formula 3

    Oct 25, 2004
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    David Goerndt
    Bill,

    Thanks for your reply. I knew when I asked the question that I was probably not going to get a definative answer on the total remaining cars. Some of the low production number cars have good history, but some, like the GTE are very hard to track because of the reasons you mentioned. I can see that this will be an ongoing research project that might never have a final answer.
    regards

    David Goerndt
     

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